@OneMoreToGo2021 , Harvard might be the most famous university in the world (though I’m sure Oxford would have something to say about that), but most people know that it doesn’t necessarily have all the most intelligent students. Different colleges value different things.
In USNWR, Swat is tied with Wellesley at #3. There is no #4. Pomona is #5 and Bowdoin is #6. You cannot say that Bowdoin kids are less accomplished or intelligent or lacking in some way compared to kids at Williams or Amherst, and completely ignore Wellesley in this discussion.
Forbes puts Pomona at #1, Williams at #2, and Amherst at #6. Another list might rank differently. I think we all know that Williams and Amherst are possibly the best known among the general public (if they have heard of them at all), but people who know these colleges aren’t going to think a Bowdoin grad is second rate to a Williams grad. Too much hair splitting.
ETA: Re SAT/ACT scores, I don’t hold much store by them. I’m a test prep tutor and have helped plenty of kids get a really high score. They aren’t intelligence tests, and people who can afford test prep are usually going to do better than people who can’t.
@Lindagaf - Fair points, I don’t disagree with most of them.
But we are not talking about Wellesley or Harvard or even Pomona here (although if you look back through the posts, I already answered you that I thought Pomona belonged right up there with Williams, Swarthmore and Amherst).
We’re all just talking opinion based on our experiences and perceptions. I do not place Bowdoin in the same category as WAS, although obviously it is a great school. Test optional is a fudge. Schools always have the ability to disregard scores in any holistic admissions process, and since most selective schools are not test optional, practically all potential applicants have them. I do not believe the rationale that the mere requirement of providing scores is somehow scaring off oodles of qualified applicants.
ETA - about test prep and being a test prep tutor. I have no idea about that. I never had a tutor, nor have my kids. Just curious, what percentage of your students score, say, 1570+ would you say? What do you mean by “really high”?
Completely agree with @suteiki77. I don’t think most people even on CC realize how deep academic talent in this country is.
Because of all the funded PhD programs and the resources and name of American research U’s (that draw scholars from all over the world), academic talent in this country is deeper than near anywhere else (though the other Anglophone countries also benefit).
Plus which, undergraduate education just doesn’t cover subjects extremely deeply.
@OneMoreToGo2021 , just as in real life, a very small percentage of kids score above 1570/35+. But I have plenty of students who score above 1500/33. The point is that without test prep, most kids won’t get those scores. IMO, scores of about 1530/34 and above are “really high”. Typically, students need to meet the threshold of 1480/32 for tippy top schools, but higher is better, of course.
It’s the rare unicorn who can get a perfect score on either test without any prep whatsoever, including self-study. I’m sure a unicorn is out there, but I have never met one.