<p>Niqui–you stated that spanking is not geared to teach kids it is acceptable to hit other people but with all due respect you are not yet a parent. and much of parenting very young children is modeling, and whether it is intended to or not, hitting/spanking a child does demonstrate that it is an acceptable behavior for parents. you are assuming that young children can understand that it’s okay for parents to hit/spank, yet not okay for children to do so?</p>
<p>how does a parent adequately explain the reasoning behind hitting/spanking? this is an honest question. it is not in my understanding of things so I wouldn’t have the first clue how to explain this choice of behavior. also are you calling spanking punishment? is the pain of the spanking the punishment?<br>
I always thought we were to discipline or teach, not punish. but that’s me.</p>
<p>Spanking as punishment for very small children is not hitting in that it’s not a random whack when the parent is angry. That happens obviously but that’s not spanking as discipline. It’s a ritual where the child is aware of the punishment coming which is probably more effective than the pain part. My H did a tiny amount of this when my kids were little but he never hurt them at all and it ended up being pretty ineffective because they very quickly figured out that a spanking from daddy was pretty lame. But my neighbor was convinced that for toddlers corporal punishment was the way to go since a two year old is really not capable of being particularly rational. So, we tried. Fail. </p>
<p>Do not use my lack of children to dismiss my opinion. I have experience with dealing with children along with formal education in child development and care. I do not claim to know how to raise children, but I do know disciplinary techniques and have experience with what works and does not work with a variety of children. I’d very much appreciate it if you would refrain from doing so in the future.</p>
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Spanking was punishment. When I was spanked, I was explained what I did wrong, what I should’ve done, and was “whooped”. Then, I was placed into “time out”. After an extended amount of time, my mom would talk to me. Usually, this time consisted of an apology from me, a talk about what happened, and her telling me that she does not love me any less. </p>
<p>Perhaps, I should share my views on spanking. I don’t see anything wrong with it as long as their in progression in the child’s behavior. No, I do not endorse beating a child black and blue, but when dealing with children of the ages 2-4, a quick pop on the butt to quickly nip a behavior in the bud is fine. I don’t believe spanking should be a main form of disciplinary action with that age group, either. At times there are more receptive disciplinary actions, but this, too, varies from child to child, household to household. With older children, spanking doesn’t need to be as prominent. </p>
<p>Will I spank my kids? Most likely not, but it’s not because I feel like I would be “stripping away my kid’s dignity” or that it would make me a “bad parent”. I just take to other forms of discipline.</p>
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And some would say punishment falls under discipline. I’m not saying you are wrong or they are right. Just different. </p>
Since you take me to task for ignoring research, let me point out that what you are saying here is philosophy, and has nothing to do with research into results. Again, the point of my posts has not been to denigrate research–indeed, the research that was posted earlier is very interesting (although like pretty much all such research, it’s pretty limited and has some problems)–but rather to point out that the rhetoric on this topic tends to go beyond disagreement about what’s effective–and that’s where the self-righteous tone comes in. The quote above is a pretty good example of what I’m talking about.</p>
I don’t see how that’s relevant. Dignity shouldn’t be taken away, spanking takes it away, and therefore, I find spanking to be cruel and unusual punishment. </p>
<p>An instinctive slap on the behind, I understand. But I don’t get systematic spanking.</p>
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Hitting? Spanking seems to me to be the equivalent of hitting, but with the addition of humiliation.</p>
<p>I did not take you to task for ignoring research, I simply noted that you requested seeing more current research than you personally found and posted then you never commented on it. clearly in your quoted comment of mine earlier that was philosophy, my own philosophy. that’s why I said, “but that’s me” how is that tone?? I am owning that I don’t believe in punishing, rather believe in teaching and disciplining. It is you who is interpreting that this is self righteous. we lose a lot through this form of communication,but that was not my tone.</p>
<p>you still haven’t commented on the earlier research posted by another poster other than to dismiss it as limited. All research is limited but it was fairly well accepted by professional organizations.</p>
It is relevant. You said you couldn’t fathom taking someone’s dignity away, no matter how young. We are talking about the discipline of children. Their are multiple disciplinary actions that could be considered as “taking away their dignity”. Spanking is not the only way. </p>
<p>I’m just commenting on this. Spanking is not the only punishment out there that takes aways one’s dignity. </p>
<p>The discussion gets complicated because there are responsive-type whacks and then there is the over-the-knee-with-a-paddle-administered-later type punishment that I think are two different things. </p>
<p>When my sister whacked her 10-year-old immediately after he spit in her face, I thought it was an appropriate response. My H told me he got spanked big time at around age 10 by his dad, for having taken a baseball bat to the kitchen door windows after his mom said no to candy. In both instances, the spank was an act of self-defense, or pre-emptive self-defense for the child’s assaultive behavior. I don’t think in either case the child took it as a lesson that hitting others was ok. They learned in no uncertain terms that what they did was egregious. In fact in real life, it could have been criminal. </p>
<p>I am with those who feel punishment is part of the parent’s disciplinary toolbox…or other figures in position of supervisory authority whether it’s school teachers, workplace managers, etc. </p>
<p>Within this school of thought is also one where punishing as a part of disciplining a child, student, or employee is one form of teaching them lessons…however harsh it may be. </p>
<p>(The following is not an advocacy for spanking, it’s just a clarification…)</p>
<p>As to the question as to how a spanked child is supposed to know that he can’t spank peers/others…</p>
<p>How does a child know that he can’t “put a peer in time out”? Or “take a toy away” from another child as a consequence for being naughty or not sharing? I’ve been around a gazillion kids and only rarely has a child tried to put another child in “time out” or similar. A child might try that, but would be quickly informed that he/she doesn’t have the authority to do that. I would imagine that the same thinking would apply for spanking. </p>
If I agree to read the research and comment on it, will you agree to think more carefully about your tone?</p>
<p>The above seems unduly combative, so let me say this: for those of you who object to any spanking or corporal punishment, would your opinion change if the research showed that it was neutral in its effect, or even beneficial in some respects? If not, why not?</p>
<p>The research posted above involved only urban parents, for one thing, and had a lot of dropouts. (The latter may mean that corporal punishment is even worse for kids than the research suggests.) It’s pretty much entirely based on participant memories, so that weakens it. Are there more long-term studies, and especially studies that focus on the degree and type of corporal punishment?</p>
<p>I guess my point here is that there are many people who don’t see anything ethically or morally wrong with corporal punishment per se, and to them, statements that it’s wrong just seem self-righteous, especially when couched in loaded language. Arguments based on outcomes would be more persuasive for this group of people.</p>
<p>All of us think we’re right all the time – that’s how we’re wired. Why would we hold a certain belief or opinion if we thought we were wrong? All we can do is remind ourselves that we aren’t infallible, that one size does not fit all in most matters, and that we can’t assign our own values and perspectives to others. </p>
<p>My decision not to spank my children has everything to do with my own philosophical values and nothing to do with what any study purports to show. So I would not change my mind even if a study showed that corporal punishment was “beneficial in some respects.” </p>
<p>I have bent over backward on this thread to say that I recognized that good parents who love their children still may decide to spank/hit them. I recognize that other people have the right to choose values that differ from mine. That doesn’t mean that I don’t find spanking abhorrent – I do. If that’s self-righteous, I don’t see how I can be otherwise. It’s what I think. In fairness, self-righteousness is often in the eye of the beholder. I quite honestly don’t see how “but that’s me” qualifies.</p>
<p>I find spanking abhorrent. I accept that good people who love their children may decide to spank. I mean, isn’t your statement implying that I should find spanking other than abhorrent? How do I do that? Or should I just pretend I don’t on a discussion board?</p>
<p>No, it’s not implying anything except that I can understand why someone who’s behavior is being labeled “abhorrent” would take offense and maybe see that as self-righteous and judgmental. Perhaps it’s a problem of semantics.</p>
<p>As I said earlier, one of the problems here is the use of loaded language. There is a big difference between “I find spanking abhorrent” and, say, “I am strongly opposed to spanking because I think it’s wrong.” I will confess that “self-righteous” is also a loaded term, so mea culpa on that.</p>
Spanking breaches a line that other methods do not. Furthermore, it seems like it is one of the aims of spanking- physical pain along with humiliation. Otherwise, why not simply hit them somewhere else? What’s unique to spanking is that it makes it a point to take away dignity.
Even if other punishments take away dignity (although I can’t think of any that do at the same level), it’s more of a side effect, not an aim that is a part of the punishment itself.</p>
<p>I’ve noticed that some of the posts talk about spanking two year old kids, in which case I take back one of my earlier comments. I wouldn’t think that a two year old has yet developed a sense of embarrassment. But then I can’t help think that physical punishment shouldn’t be used on a two year old. At such a young age, other punishments would be just as effective. I can’t imagine a two year old being that rebellious, Like I said before, I think that physical discipline should be a last resort.</p>
<p>Personally, I think hurtful words are way more damaging to a person than a swat, but I know others may feel differently.</p>
<p>I don’t really understand the “taking away dignity” concern. In my household, the only behavior that was punished, was “undignified” by definition. All punishment is intended to make the recipient feel ashamed and remorseful for their bad behavior. That is the purpose of time-outs, stern words, taking away privileges, and other non-contact punishments.</p>
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<p>I think it is easy for people to make value judgments about others’ methods when they were just lucky to have given birth to compliant children. I really think some people have no idea how out of control and shocking some childrens’ behavior can be, even when those children were born into loving, patient, educated households.</p>
<p>I don’t condone spanking, but I also don’t presume to know what works for every given child and circumstance.</p>
There are lots of people who think they have this child-rearing thing all figured out–until the second (or third, or even fourth) child comes along.</p>