Blackface

Cultural Approriation (CA) What is it? Who does it? Why? And when is enough enough? I, for one, am fed up!!!

Everyday, I turn on the news, open a newspaper or open my computer, and BAM! - another news story about somebody, somewhere, being accused of CA. Today, it is Padma Lakshmi (Indian chef). Her ‘crime’? Wearing cornrows!
Shades of ‘White Girls Shouldn’t Wear Hoops’?

What next? Democracy is from Ancient Greece. Ban tanning beds? Pasta allegedly originated in China. Parkas (anoraks) allegedly have Inuit roots. Hot Dogs are German. Baseball is derived from a British game of stoolball or rounders. Apple Pie is British. Yoga has eastern origins. BBQ is Spanish (barbacoa) and so the list goes on and on…!

Lol, last week at my kid’s high school a few Chinese boarding students performed an original rap in Mandarin. Call the media!

For everyone saying that the 80s were “a different time” and that we shouldn’t hold the behavior of people then to current standards, I recommend Alexandra Petri’s piece in today’s Washington Post.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/02/06/amazing-thing-about-s-is-they-were-much-longer-ago-than-you-realize/?utm_term=.b8638e7f5a1c

Weird! I thought I had started a separate Cultural Appropriation thread - I’m sorry it ended up here.

Very amusing article, @Joblue . Given that she was born roughly sometime around 1988, I guess she has an excellent perspective on the 80’s.

@momo2x2018 , thanks for the laugh! Here’s a recent article about one of our most revered Founding Fathers: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/08/08/new-uva-report-brings-thomas-jeffersons-racist-past-light

So Jeffferson was a racist, along with, I assume, pretty much most causcasians. Did they call it that back then? We do know that public opinion about slave-holding, at least in the Northeast, changed from around the time of the Revolutionary War to the early 1800’s. By then, Jefferson was an old man. John Jay, between the 1810 census and the 1820 census, had freed his slaves, and was an early proponent of manumission, a precursor to the abolition movement. But in 1784, he was a slave-holder. We know that in the space of a few decades, feelings about slavery changed. There was no televsion, radio, or internet to speed that process up. The court of public opinion was not so quick to deliver judgement back then.

How people feel about blackface now didn’t change overnight because Northam was discovered wearing blackface last week. It’s been a gradual process. Now, the things that are verboten are evolving at breakneck speed. Literally a few years ago, my son dressed as a Mexican “bandito” for Halloween. He was not mocking Mexicans. He was a little kid wearing a Halloween costume. In fact, he adores Mexico. He got a serape and a sombrero as souvenirs on a vacation to Mexico at the age of 9. Did the Mexicans who sold him the serape and sombrero feel offended about selling it to him? Of course, no way could he wear that costume now. Do I have to destroy my photos of him in his costume for fear that the photos might ruin his reputation and career in the future?

Again, this is out of control and people have to stop overreacting to things that might have happened decades ago, without the benefit of knowing how it would be perceived in 2018. It’s 100% true that people are offended by it, that it’s hurtful to people of color, and that it’s tasteless. People have a right to be upset. Northam was not apologetic enough, which I think really bothers people. Meanwhile, the POTUS spoke unapologetically about “very fine people on both sides” less than two years ago; is Northham being held to a higher standard?

It wasn’t that long ago that we had an actual former Grand Dragon of the KKK in the Senate. He wore the robes and not as a prank or a Halloween costume. When he died Obama and Clinton eulogized him profusely. He still has buildings and other things named after him.

I’m thinking back now. I grew up in a very low income area, very racially mixed (about 1/3rd black, 1/3rd Hispanic, 1/3rd a mix of “ethnically distinct” white groups - Italians, Irish, Albanians, Jews, etc.).

Sometimes we used to fashion old bedsheets as a Halloween costume. It was the cheapest costume available - cut two holes for eyes and you’re a ghost! Yes, many black kids did this as well. I don’t think anyone I knew had ever even heard of the Ku Klux Klan. I certainly never heard of them when I was 10 or 11.

This was the Bronx in the 1970s-80s. Fortunately, no family who actually had a camera in those days would have trusted their kids with it.

@Lindagaf I think you may have to watch your language! ‘verboten’?!

I don’t remember hearing a lot of outrage when Tyra Banks did a stunningly beautiful photoshoot to transform into Cindy Crawford, Cara Delvigne etc. Or Martin Lawrence when he became White Bob. Or Eddie Murphy on SNL
And so, in the words of ‘The King of Siam’ - et cetera, et cetera, et cetera!

@SatchelSF it’s the pointy hat that makes it clear this is a KKK costume, not a ghost. Ghosts are still okay as far as I know.

Obviously we all live in different bubbles. It’s always interesting to me to read how very different in some cases. Just as a data point, 25 years ago when my kids were trick or treating, a serape and sombrero would not have been seen as an acceptable Halloween costume in our northeastern neighborhood. A majority of parents did not want their kids dressing up for world cultures day. So to me it doesn’t look like societal standards are changing at break neck speed. Quite the opposite. fwiw

This isn’t meant to be challenging, just to show our experiences and reactions aren’t universal. What seems common sense to some posters with regard to costumes doesn’t to others.

@alh ‘A majority of parents did not want their kids dressing up for world cultures day.’

Why is that? I’m curious.

As recently as ten years ago, at my kids’ elementary school, world cultures and diversity of ethnicities were embraced (they probably still are). in fact, parents were encouraged, and invited to go to school and present their cultures. I have clear and fond memories of going to school to talk to kids about my culture and homeland; I brought native foods and small souvenirs of my heritage. the kids were encouraged to dress-up in the costume of the culture being celebrated. When my kids were in 3rd grade, they had a Native American unit. As part of the unit, they made bead/shell necklaces and feather head dresses (collected feathers on a field trip to a nearby nature preserve). In 5th grade they celebrated Black History Month with a study of a prominent person of AA heritage, of their choosing, my D chose Madam CJ Walker - as part of that celebration, along with their written study, the students also had to bring a dish from African culture (not necessarily AA). I thought, and still think, those celebrations were a great part of my kids’ elementary education. I do not recall one single parent objecting to ‘dress-up’ or anything else connected to the celebrations.

Everything is cultural appropriation and it’s pretty stupid, in my opinion. About two years ago, a girl wore a beautiful Chinese-style dress to her prom. She posted a pic on social media and faced backlash from some people. Why? Honestly, it’s beyond ridiculous. If a Chinese man wears a business suit to a meeting, is he culturally appropriating the West? No one will have a problem with that. This is digressing into another topic, so I will stop.

Maybe it’s time to have a moderator close this thread as it has digressed to what constitutes cultural appropriation.

It sounds like the threads were merged.

@hebegebe it seems they were merged; I clearly started a separate thread. idk what happened…

It evolved on its own and is still tangentially related. As long as a thread does not violate ToS, I tend to be more lenient to tangents in the cafe.

With the discussion on this thread of Native American dress (and perhaps earlier - I’m not going back to verify) the thread had already moved to cultural appropriation well before a separate thread was started.

Assuming this isn’t off topic …

40 years ago, living overseas, another American student (looking out for my best interests) cautioned me to please be cautious about cultural appropriation of national dress. I had never heard of such a thing, so she explained the concept. She didn’t invent the concept; it wasn’t new then.

Again, just a data point for anyone interested.

ETA

Crossposted

@skieurope ok, good! at least I know I’m not imagining things I thought I did!

You have to wonder why they chose a costume with a hat that resembles the dunce cap as it was used in roughly the same time frames.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunce#Dunce_cap

Seriously, who confuses a sheet with holes for the eyes (a ghost) and a KKK costume? Come on, now.