Blackface

Since Ski has given the okay, I’d like to address momo2x2018 ‘s excellent point: Does society (American? European? Canadian? Japanese?) decide that when our children can’t honor and respect other cultures by celebrating something as inclusive as World Heirtage appreciation day, we then go from cultural appropriation to narrow mindedness and isolationism? Will the pendulum swing the other way? Will it then be seen as politically incorrect to ignore and not celebrate other cultures?

Seriously, I’m fed up with trying to figure out what the latest thing is that I can’t say. I kid you not, I was at lunch two weeks ago and the topic of the tv show about little people came up. As far as I’m aware, that is what people who are of small stature wish to be called. I was told promptly that no, little people now preferred to be called something else. I can’t remember what it is actually. I am well-travelled, read the news, use social media, watch movies and tv, etc… How do we figure out the new social rules?

I referred to break-neck speed earlier. Things that were ok just a couple of years ago are now frowned on. On the plus side, I love that many people accept, for example, interracial couples and gay marriage, and that sexual harassment and racism in general are well and truly taboo. I love that women are absolutely being heard loud and clear. There’s still room for improvement, or course.

Agree, Linda, it’s not pleasant getting “the look” from the office vocab monitor for using a word that was just fine for decades & then becomes verboten. Try as I might, I still slip up & say “mailman” & “fireman” once in a while.

Speaking of appropriating foreign cultures…anybody here ever been in Spain for the processions through the city streets in the week before Easter? Yikes.

I still say mailman and fireman and it’s not a slip up. And I know women in both these professions and they are on no way offended.

Apparently IU students.
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2016/04/08/dominican-monk-mistaken-kkk-member-indiana-university/82793104/

This is not about a picture of a white man dressed as Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder or Bob Marley. It’s about white man dressed in blackface caricature and another dressed as a Klansman. It’s not about cultural appropriation, it’s about racism.

This was not normal behavior thirty years ago, at least not everywhere. I am one year older than the Virginia governor, and I have never personally seen someone in blackface or klan costume. I looked at my high school and college yearbooks and there are zero pictures of either. This may have been 30 years ago, but that yearbook was published 21 years AFTER MLK’s “I Have a Dream” speech, nineteen years after the Selma to Montgomery march, thirty years after Brown vs the Board of Education, twenty-nine years after Rosa Parks inspired the Montgomery bus boycott, but only three years after the last lynching of a black man by the KKK. Blackface and klan costume were not okay thirty years ago, just as it’s not okay today.

The governor chose four pictures to represent himself in his school’s yearbook. He made a statement. He wasn’t an 18 year old high school senior or a 22 year old college senior, he was a 26 year old medical school graduate. His prefrontal cortex was fully developed.

Running for governor, he sought and received support from black voters in Virginia. He appealed for their votes and the privilege of representing them as their governor. They have reason to feel betrayed. He owes them an apology and he needs to seek and earn their forgiveness. As a society, we should allow past mistakes to be forgiven. People can evolve, mature, and better themselves. People shouldn’t be defined by their worst moments. But it’s hard to forgive when someone doesn’t accept responsibility, show remorse and give a genuine apology.

I think there are a lot of good examples of political correctness run amuck. I just don’t think this is one of them.

@csfmap winning thread of the day. A very thoughtful and well written response.

@yourmomma said:

I find that to be rather disingenuous.

They didn’t mistake a child walking around with a sheet with holes for the eyes on **Halloween night/B for a Klansman, they mistook someone who was wearing a white ceremonial robe for a Klansman. Not the same thing. The poster to whom I replied was sarcastically suggesting that if someone had taken a photo of him/her as a child dressed as a ghost, he might now be facing the same scrutiny as the governor. I call BS on that. And the Indiana example above doesn’t change my mind.

But we don’t know what went into his development. I grew up with a parent who made Archie Bunker look liberal. I was in an overwhelmingly white, christian community. I didn’t have a lot of reason not to absorb his views. I went to a 90% white college so again not a lot of interaction with minorities. I needed some time to develop my own views and of course I’m still doing it. We don’t know if the gov picked the photos for his page or if a committee picked a few for him. We don’t know if he was 26 in the picture or a first year student (so 22?) and trying to fit in to a new community. Maybe someone else picked the costumes?

I don’t get the controversy over the ‘lips’ sweater (other than that it is an $800 sweater and fairly ugly). I don’t think it looks like a ‘blackface’ thing at all but more of a bank robber mask?

And in related news, Northam today called slaves “Indentured servants from Africa” on CBS Face the Nation. You can’t make this stuff up!

Re: post 167
I think we do know Northam chose the pictures for his page. CNN interviewed one of the editors (Dr. William Elwood) of Northam’s yearbook. He said:

“Each student was allowed to submit a certain number of pictures that they wanted to appear on the page with their graduation photograph,” said Elwood. “They chose their own pictures, they were submitted in a sealed envelope with their name on them, and the only time that envelope was opened was when the layout was done on their page.”

He also said that chance of a mix-up was unlikely.

Even if an excuse could be made for the racist photo on his personal page, right now you have a 59 year old elected governor who is not being honest about the photo. His story doesn’t add up and he’s lying. That’s on him - not his parents, community, classmates, bungling year book staff, youth, or just trying to fit in. I think he’s only made things worse for himself.

Sent from my iPad

I guess Ralph is trying to wreck his career…and nobody will make a movie out of it.

Northam’s VMI yearbook photo had a very interesting nickname and it sure didn’t have anything to do with hunting raccoons…

“In 1619 the first black Africans came to Virginia. With no slave laws in place, they were initially treated as indentured servants, and given the same opportunities for freedom dues as whites.”
I think he was referring to these first arrivals.

Perhaps he was. But given the recent controversy, it wasn’t the time for him to say “It wasn’t that bad, initially.”

MODERTOR’S NOTE: Please stay on topic. I had to delete several off-topic posts.

Did you all catch SNL this weekend? The Blackface clip reminded me so much of this thread that I burst out laughing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrpQVSVa2QI

^^^^^Wow, how timely. “But it was the 80s!!!” “What does that even mean?”

He does also address the question of whether or not it was offensive to wear blackface as part of a costume depicting one’s idol: Yes, offensive.

More polling on the subject:

Story: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/virginians-split-on-governors-fate-amid-blackface-scandal-poll-shows/2019/02/09/93002e84-2bc1-11e9-b011-d8500644dc98_story.html
All poll questions and answers: https://www.washingtonpost.com/page/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2019/02/09/National-Politics/Polling/release_543.xml

Percentage who think Northam should / should not step down:

47 / 47 all Virginians
48 / 46 white
37 / 58 black

For Herring:

34 / 60 all Virginians
31 / 62 white
35 / 62 black

There are various other questions asked of those polled.

The above do suggest that the specific context of the incident and subsequent sayings do matter.

I find it interesting that more whites want Northam to resign than blacks; I’d think blackface + Ku Klux Klan outfit should be about as bad as you can get if you are black. Probably because whites feel the need to virtue signal more.

Or maybe some African Americans just come to expect this kind of nonsense from white people.