DS considering Boston College and Middlebury as his two potential EDs.
Visited BC but unfortunately did not get around to visiting Middlebury, so are not as familiar with the latter.
Would welcome any thoughts on the pros/cons of each.
DS is looking to study history and economics.
Thank you.
My personal opinion…I would not allow a kid to apply ED to a place they have never visited. Any chance you live close enough to drive to Middlebury…this week? If so, I would suggest you take your student there. Let them see for themselves.
Is proximity to a city important to your son? If so, Middlebury really isn’t near…anything. BC is right near Boston.
I think location might be the difference.
Also, BC is a Jesuit college…and Middlebury isn’t. Does that matter to your son? I will say, the Jesuits really have higher education well crafted.
Both are excellent colleges but are very very different personalities.
Middlebury is gorgeous. It’s in a lovely part of Vermont, the nearest city is Burlington which is a fun place (University of Vermont is smack dab in the middle of the city) so lots of young people around. It is an academically rigorous place with lots of outdoor opportunities (Vermont’s State Parks are beautifully maintained for hiking, etc.) and is close to fantastic skiing and other winter sports.
It’s not a great option for a kid who wants the buzz of a city– BC is a quick public transportation ride down Commonwealth Avenue to Boston with it’s gazillion students and nightlife and theater and museums. Middlebury has athletic students but is not a rah rah spectator sport kind of campus. Terrific faculty devoted to teaching undergrads.
I agree with Thumper- applying ED to a place you’ve never seen is a sub-optimal strategy. These two seem like a curious pairing- any idea why these two? And is your kid specifically looking for a Jesuit school- and if so, Middlebury ain’t that.
A kid who loves BC might love Tufts, Georgetown, Holy Cross, Villanova. A kid who loves Middlebury might love Colgate, Hamilton, Bowdoin, Williams. See where I’m going with this?
Two great institutions but very different.
While we have not visited Middlebury he has a fair amount of knowledge about the school, including doing a virtual info session. We’ve visited over 12 schools so we know the value - and limits - of what you can gain from visiting a school. At the same time, visiting over 12 schools helps to know what to look for in a school.
He has a fairly high GPA, 1520 SAT, 5s on his APs junior year, great extracurriculars,… He wants a school that is on the medium to small size, strong academically, nice campus, ..
We are in a big city so he does not want to be in a large city any more if he can avoid it, so BC is attractive as it is not in the center of Boston, and Middlebury is attractive as its in a rural/countryside location.
There are lots of colleges more similar to BC (Haverford- not in downtown Philly but near it), Northwestern (Evanston looks a lot like Newton/Chestnut Hill and easy access to downtown Chicago), etc. Middlebury is rural, no getting around that. And he’s not popping off to a fun restaurant in Burlington for dinner and then back to the dorm to study….more like a “once in a while” kind of excursion.
Well…if we are voting, I vote for BC. First, it has a beautiful several hundred acre campus that feels like it’s not right in a city. Second, as I mentioned above, the Jesuits really have higher education well crafted (disclaimer, my younger kid graduated from Santa Clara, another Jesuit college…and we were very pleased with the college). The Jesuits have a strong tradition of giving back to their communities, and we thought that was important and so did our kid. Third, I don’t know where you live, but getting to BC is likely a lot easier to get to than getting to Middlebury (unless you live in the northeast kingdom of VT). And lastly, BC is in closer proximity to places where your student might garner internships during their college years.
So…my vote would be BC…but your kid is going to college next year, not me!
BC has near 10k undergrads, over 15k with graduate, a school of management and multiple campuses. It has ACC sports. It will have religious imagery and core requirements with two courses required in theology.
Middlebury has 2700 undergraduates. I’m sure they have a core but can’t find it. I assume it doesn’t require religion.
They seem different, forgetting the geography.
No one has to ED…that’s a choice.
Obviously only the student can determine a favorite, not strangers on a website.
If you can get to Midd but not by the ED deadline, you can apply to both (choose the favorite) ED2 as well. This would give you more time to visit. In other words, forgo ED1.
Good luck
When I visited LACs with my D we felt that each had a distinct personality—some schools just felt right and others (including colleges that sounded great on paper) were summarily dismissed from consideration. I would make every effort to visit Middlebury if considering ED.
I will say that one difference (other than the obvious size, location) is the fact that BC likely has an extensive core curriculum that is typical of Jesuit universities. I would have the student look at the core and consider how it would work for him. FWIW my S went to a different Jesuit college and the core was a net positive for him (providing him a well rounded humanities education as a business major) while my D had specific interests outside of her major that she hoped to (and did) pursue in college and felt a large core would be too restrictive.
Not much to add here that hasn’t already been said. They seem very different choices to me.
One thing I will add is that while BC is bigger, it doesn’t feel “big.” And the on-campus vibe is terrific. My personal experience is that BC really does put an emphasis on the student and teaching. By that I mean while it has amazing scholarly professors who are leaders in their areas, my impression was that they are there because they are phenomenal teachers first and foremost, which is a nice characteristic to have at a big school.
Obviously don’t know as much about Middlebury, but would hope that they would demonstrate the same ethos. It’s presumably one of the benefits of a Liberal Arts College. I would also assume that the opportunities for summer internships and graduation placement would be strong there. I would just say that you don’t lose that at BC, and you have the added opportunities for internships during school, given proximity to the City of Boston. It’s what I always point out about Trinity in the LAC context, and if your kid is at all interested in Finance, Healthcare/Life Sciences or Government, of the two, BC is tough to beat.
But while BC is a pretty campus in Chestnut Hill, it ain’t Middlebury pretty.
Curious how you got down to these two. Feels like there’s more here.
This is my feeling also.
Given this uncertainty, it is not obvious to me that applying ED is a good idea. I would be inclined to apply RD (my vague recollection is that these two schools don’t have EA) and see what offers come in. There is something to be said for having an affordable offer in-hand when you visit a school. It feels very real, and the student knows that they really can be here in September if they just decided to do it. A student does not need to apply anywhere ED.
I would say that they are two different forms of pretty.
I suppose that if you can comfortably afford to be full pay (and noting that history and economics are majors that could lead to a graduate program, and more expense) then either of these two excellent colleges could be a great choice.
I’ll take a stab at this one . . .
You’ve asked for pros and cons for each school, so I’ll try to throw some thoughts into the mix. In full disclosure, I have a daughter (nursing major) and a niece (psych major) who both attended BC and had positive experiences there. My niece was able to present a paper on her original research at a national conference.
For a prospective History major, the biggest pro for BC is that your son potentially gets to study with Heather Cox Richardson. I’m a big fan of hers and believe that she is a national treasure. If you don’t know her work, I encourage you to read up on her and see what you think. She writes a regular blog and speaks out on current issues of the day, offering a historian’s perspective.
My negative for BC is that freshman have a 50:50 chance of being housed two miles away on BC’s Newton campus. It is connected to the main campus by regular shuttle bus service. My daughter was housed there her freshman year and didn’t mind it. In fact, she thought it was a positive because it built community among the freshmen quickly. If a student is not well organized and is the type who may have to go back to his room for something he forgot, this might be a problem. Or if he just likes to go back to his room during the day when he has a break in classes, his room is less accessible. The same could be said for living off campus, which most students do in their junior year. My daughter actually loved her off campus apartment wihich she shared with half a dozen friends. C’est la vie.
I recently toured BC with a niece. One of the things that struck me was students at tables raising money for the poor and recruiting student volunteers to work on spring break among the poor in the Caribbean and various locations around the U.S. The sense of student activism for social justice stood out to me.
Middlebury’s strength in international study and foreign language seems to me to cut both ways. They offer more foreign languages than BC does despite being a much smaller college. And they have access to many study abroad programs, which more than half of the students reportedly take advantage of in their junior year. The negative side of that is the disruption to friend groups and social networks during junior year - especially to those who choose not to study abroad and are left behind. Given that hundreds of students are studying abroad each year, the actual number of students on campus is probably about 10% lower than the reported student enrollment.
One observation about a different vibe between the two schools is that Middlebury has developed a reputation as an activist campus over the past decade or two. This past year there have been student protests over budget cuts, but a variety of topics have led students to assemble. In contrast, the administration at BC seems to make it difficult to organize demonstrations on campus. In addition, with schools of business, nursing, and education, there is more of a pre-professional vibe at BC among large parts of the student body.
Just some thoughts about the two schools without repeating comments about the obvious differences in size, location, and environment.
Someone mentioned Study Abroad, something Middlebury excels in, as a mixed blessing. I’d just like to add my vote to the “blessing” side. IMO, half the complaints I read from students who are ready jump ship from an unhappy sophomore year, whether it be socially or academically, could be solved by a change of scenery (while earning credit for it.)
Same with DD (and actually my son’s university as well). Both really liked the core course requirements. Those courses gave them a different spin than their majors (engineering and music).
BC has a more pre-professional feeling. If you like attending football games, and the rah-rah around that, BC is the winner. As a Jesuit school, BC attracts many students who grew up in a Catholic faith tradition. If this isn’t your case, you may not like the school even if you like the values.
Midd has a lots of student-athletes and an outdoorsy vibe. It’s always been strong in languages, including those outside the “usual suspects”. While smaller, most students at LACs say that they are still meeting new people senior year. Remember that 25% of any school’s student body is new each year. Midd has a short-term in Jan. This is a great way to do something immersive and to break up the flow of the year.
One thing you may want to do is map out a 4 year course of study at each, taking into account core/distribution requirements, major requirements, study abroad, etc. This can highlight differences and occasionally deal-breakers.
I agree that it’d be great to visit before applying ED, but if you feel like you have gotten enough data points from people whose perspective you know and trust, you may have enough to choose between 2 very different options.
Thank you, this is what I was looking for (not so much the pros and cons of ED or not - a completely different conversation).
My D is at a different NESCAC where a similar percentage of students go abroad. It seems to be the pattern that friend groups arrange in advance which semester to go abroad so the experience won’t mean not seeing each other for a full year. Athletes go when their sports aren’t in season. I think that’s the case at Middlebury, too, based on my nephew’s recent (very positive!) experience there. So it doesn’t have to be as disruptive as you suggest.
My D is abroad right now (and so are most of her closest friends – one person in her tightest friend group decided not to go), and yes, there are lots of people my D won’t see for a semester, and some she won’t see for a year because they’re going in opposite semesters. But when she gets back in the spring, most of the people she cares about the most will be there. And she’ll get to go back to her previous jobs, leadership positions in clubs etc.
“The negative side of that is the disruption to friend groups and social networks during junior year - especially to those who choose not to study abroad and are left behind. Given that hundreds of students are studying abroad each year, the actual number of students on campus is probably about 10% lower than the reported student enrollment.”
It may depend on your perspective, but DS and friends really enjoyed leaving a rural campus for a foreign city, meeting new people, etc. The shifts that this caused for those who stayed on campus seemed to have been welcomed. Rather than depriving them of their friend group, it created opportunities to hang with different people and shift around activities. I would not count this in the con column.
When my daughter went abroad, there were all kinds of problems with the friends left behind. I’m happy that things worked out well for your kids, but I’ve seen it work the other way first hand.
All I’m saying is that it’s something to take into account as a potential problem. The OP asked for pros and cons, so he can evaluate whether it’s something to be concerned about. The 4 years of college aepren’t always idyllic.
Agree with the many comments recommending a visit to Middlebury if at all possible before making a binding ED decision.
But, I have child who goes to BC and I have a fair amount of experience with Middlebury as well as other NESCAC schools. My list of some pros and cons, some of which are repeats of @Bill_Marsh.
BC Pros:
Proximity to city. The student body at BC spends a lot of time in Boston, making this an integral part of the BC experience. It’s a short ride away on the T (there’s a stop basically on campus) and if you have a few friends going with, you can split an Uber for just a few bucks apiece. My kid goes into the city at least every weekend - sometimes just to study in the beautiful public library, other times to shop, eat, etc.
Huge rah-rah sports culture, leading to a really engaged student body. Between football, hockey, Beanpot, Marathon Monday, there are so many things to do on campus that draw large portions of the student body. This results in a truly cohesive feeling on campus while a student, leading to a super engaged alumni base, many of whom come back to campus often.
Core curriculum. (Subjective- I think this is a huge pro, but others could view this as a con). This has a major impact on your academic trajectory, as it consumes roughly 1/3 of all of your classes to fulfill the requirement. Unlike at most liberal arts schools, where there are some requirements, but they tend to be kind of an afterthought, the core curriculum is the driving force behind your entire academic schedule. It’s hard to get in all of those classes, but the result is students who take quite a few classes outside of their comfort zone, often leading to pleasant surprises about areas of study they found they unexpectedly enjoyed. My kid’s choice of major came about as a result of a required core curriculum class.
Access to professors is strong and class size are fairly small. This was a surprise to me, but my kid has mostly enjoyed pretty small classes and has really gotten to know their professors.
Living off-campus junior year. Most students are given three years of housing, which junior year being the year that students are required to live off-campus. While this initially seemed negative, it’s been a huge positive. With most of your classmates living off campus, junior year is super fun. Plus, from a parent’s perspective, it’s valuable for your kid to get experience hunting for an apartment, signing a lease, buying groceries, paying utilities, cooking.
BC Cons:
Middlebury Pros:
Accessibility of the outdoors: In the way that BC student life is integrated into the city of Boston, Middlebury’s is integrated into the outdoors. It’s between two mountain ranges - Green and Adirondack and all manner of outdoor activities are right at your fingertips. Students take advantage of that - hiking, camping, skiing. It’s all right there. There’s a Middlebury-owned ski hill (Snow Bowl) a short shuttle ride away from the main campus (near the Breadloaf campus).
Ridiculously small classes sizes and easy access to professors. Also ease of access to clubs and study abroad (including many Middlebury- sponsored programs).
Breathtakingly beautiful campus - 360 views of mountains. BC’s campus is also really pretty, but the natural beauty surrounding Middlebury is second to none.
Town of Middlebury is charming and beautiful, albeit quite small (approximately 9000).
Middlebury Cons:
I did not comment on some things that are truly subjective, but have a big impact, notably religion. Boston College is Jesuit which permeates the entire student experience from the composition of the student body, to the curriculum. Middlebury is a secular institution. As a broad generalization, BC has a more “conservative” feel than Middlebury in terms of both students and faculty.
Truly, both schools are great! But, I think there are very few students who would be equally happy at both schools. In addition to - hopefully - visiting Middlebury, really think about what type of environment is a better fit for you. Are you a city-person who loves attending sporting events and big, all-student social/athletic events, OK with facing some challenges in terms of selecting classes/choosing dorms/participating in clubs/study abroad, comfortable with proximity to religion, and open to taking a wide variety of required classes? Or are you more outdoorsy, comfortable with an activist student culture, and seeking extremely close professor relationships and small class sizes, fine with limited access to cities/urban culture, and deeply appreciative of a gorgeous natural environment?
I’ll echo what others have said. Don’t apply to any college ED without visiting. I think if he’s able to visit Middlebury, he’ll have a much easier time deciding between these two great schools when it comes to using the ED option.