Boulder Runs A University Like A High School

Parents Forum
1

<p>Is this the outrage du jour to others that it seems to me? Evidently the powers that be at U Colorado Boulder want to give students there exit exams – outside of normal course offerings – to show that the kids have actually “learned’ something during their tenure there. From Monday’s Colorado Daily </p>

<p>([Standardized</a> tests likely coming to CU : CU News : ColoradoDaily.com Boulder, CO](<a href=“http://www.coloradodaily.com/news/2008/oct/06/standardized-tests-likely-coming-cu/]Standardized”>http://www.coloradodaily.com/news/2008/oct/06/standardized-tests-likely-coming-cu/) )</p>

<p>“The University of Colorado regents are poised to approve a measure this week that would introduce standardized tests to the Boulder campus as a way to gauge how much students are learning…“Ultimately, I think this will make a CU degree more valuable as students compete for jobs with other graduates who come from schools that don’t use a scientific method to measure how much students learn,” said CU Regent Stephen Ludwig, a Democrat from Lone Tree who is sponsoring the measure…</p>

<p>If the regents pass the measure Tuesday, it will be up to campus leaders to iron out details of how the tests will be administered, and to appeal to students about the worth of the results.</p>

<p>Michael Poliakoff, CU’s vice president for academic affairs and research, has presented the testing idea to the regents, saying that it’s a written test, unlike the multiple-choice standardized exams given to grade-schoolers or the SAT tests taken by high-schoolers.
The test would measure how proficient CU students are in areas such as critical thinking, problem solving and communicating — skills that transcend any particular major.”</p>

<p>Yikes! I’ve never heard of anything like this before. Like shouldn’t they only be admitting kids who can thinks and solve problems anyway? What does it say about a U that kids who can get into and out of the place still need to demonstrate that they can think and solve problems? And why would any kid take this seriously after a life of NCLB tests, high-school exit exams, SATs, ACTs, APs, and the like. </p>

<p>It says later in the article that several other schools do this too, or are considering doing it. I’ve never heard of such a thing and am appalled. Is anyone else?</p>

2

<p>It is coming to many schools that are under pressure to show concrete results.</p>

3

<p>You may think that this is highschoolish, but the higher education community has brought this on themselves as so much of society distrusts those in academia. I haven’t seen any recent polls, but I remember some showing that the broad American public rate academics about as highly as they rate Congress and Wall Street, ie, not well. Furthermore, people are tired of the lack of accountability of those in academia and the corporatization/politicization of major universities. Such a measurement would seek to connect the interests of students and their teachers as such testing would put more emphasis on classroom teaching and redirect faculty attention back to the students. </p>

<p>I’m confident that the academics wiill fight this tooth and nail.</p>

4

<p>How is it different from the GRE and GRE subject tests that are required for all grad schools?</p>

5

<p>My daughters college required a junior qualifying exam of all students to prove they were prepared to go on and write their senior thesis.
It’s not something public universities generally do however.

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6

<p>Agree with all. GREs were required (and you had to “pass” at a certain level to graduate) at my undergraduate institute was back when. I would not be offended if a public college required those of their soon to be graduates. I would be concerned about how they would be used. For example, would a certain level of achievement be required to graduate. What are the consequences of not achieving a perdetermined level etc. BTW, in college one of my classmates could not pass the GRE at the level our school required…but had already been accepted into law school! I think it took two or three times, but the GRE level to get the BA diploma was finally achieved. It was a notorious story at the time especially with (a well known) law school acceptance already in the pocket.</p>

7

<p>I’ve got two kids at CU-Boulder. Will be interested in what they have to say on the subject and what their experiences will be.</p>

8

<p>Way back when I had to take a test to get into the college of Education. It was designed for Calif. H.S. students. CAT I think was the name of it. If you weren’t in the top half of the students taking the test you could not enroll in the college of education.</p>

9

<p>One problem is that not all students are studying the same things so how do you develop a test? A history major knows lots about history but little (or nothing) about quantum physics, and the physics major will be the reverse.</p>

<p>Any attempt to construct a general exam will, in my opinion, be watered down and worthless.</p>

10

<p>I work at University of Colorado and had a front seat for this debacle. This is just a way for schools to assert that they are worth the extraordinary tuition costs even in the absence of any sort of gainful employment by large numbers of graduates. I can’t believe that this would make any difference in anything but recruitment.</p>

11

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<p>As others have suggested, there already is a general exam: the GRE.</p>

12

<p>Anyone heard of the WEPT? It’s the same kind of thing…students in the CSU system have to take it junior year as a sort of exit exam, but it’s an essay test. WEPT stands for Written English Proficiency Test. The scuttlebutt of it around here is that after freshman year, most students don’t take English, so by the time we get to Junior year and the WEPT we’re not as prepared as we could be.</p>

13

<p>UChicago students had to pass intensive written exams in the 1940’s and perhaps beyond, so this is not new. The faculty ultimately found it difficult to agree on what constituted a well educated person that could be measured by an exam (see Levine’s book, 2008, Powers of the Mind for a discussion of these issues).</p>

14

<p>On February 29, 2008, Bunsen Burner started a Parent Caf</p>

15

<p>I foresee nothing but problems. What happens if after 4 years w/ a 3.0 GPA each semester and you flunk the exit exam? Do you still get your degree? Does your degree state something different than if you had passed? What happens if you are an honors student or have a 4.0 GPA and flunk? Do you get a tuition refund?</p>

16

<p>From time to time, I hear talk in my state about the importance of implementing a K-16 education system. EEEEEEK!!! Just what we do NOT need … our public schools already teach to the state tests. I don’t think extending “teaching to the test” to college is a good idea at all. </p>

<p>This is precisely why I have preached the importance of grad/professional school to my kids. Undergrad programs are destined to become as watered-down as high school programs.</p>

17

<p>Exactly my thoughts, tutu (post #15).</p>

<p>Along with a nagging question about whether College Board will be retained to develop and administer these tests. After all, once the high school class of 2011 boomlet passes (or whichever year that is), they’ll be hurting for souls to pay them testing and score reporting fees. They’ll need the revenue.</p>

18

<p>And they will, of course, charge a fee to find out the score early.</p>

19

<p>CU is trying to get ahead of an advancing political swamp. Currently in Colorado Higher Ed there is a largely behind the scenes discussion to try to define what components make a degree actually useful for employment. As an accessory to that discussion there is also heated discourse about what proportion of college courses should be remedial in order to meet the first condition. </p>

<p>Either way it’s trouble. For CU to institute exit tests does imply that the last four years haven’t gone the way they should have…and for the students being newly subjected to this test the fear (or question) would be why now and why them? </p>

<p>In part its being driven by the business community, they do have justifiable concerns that graduates are not being adequately prepared for a professional work environment. </p>

<p>Less ethical agendas referring to exit tests may relate to a proposed severance tax increase on oil/shale companies which is intended for funding higher education. If colleges cannot prove their graduates are ready, those opposing this measure would have good rationales for challenging this initiative (Those challenging this proposal may include the SL companies as there is some indication the increased funding may lower tuition. And obviously the oil industry) Although I personally doubt students will see such a benefit. Too many trophy buildings yet to be built. For higher ed entities such as CU, ironically, gestures like an exit test could serve them well to demonstrate that yes, the increased revenue should be directed to higher education in Colorado. </p>

<p>So lots of fences are being jumped on this one…</p>

20

<p>Sounds terrible to me. UW administers English and math exams to all entering students, requiring remedial work if standards are not met, competency levels to have a UW degree, regardless of school or college, are assured before the student progresses too far. One would think that any reputable college would trust that students passing their courses with a high enough gpa to graduate actually met minimally recognized standards of knowledge for a major and no further testing is needed to prove this- the professors maintain standards in giving grades for their courses. The GREs are meant to evaluate the highest achieving students for entrance to graduate programs, not to ascertain a level of competence for ordinary BA/BS terminal degree recipients. Somehow our society is forgetting that college is for an education, not job training. A major indicates a subject studied in some depth, not job marketability. Of course it is nice to find work based on knowledge obtained in college, but not every major needs to be geared to finding a job. How many different tests would be required to test the art, math, literature…majors? Many fields already have professional tests- eg engineering.</p>