@gearmom Does Boy Scouts of America allow US Scouts to take that oath or no?
If Scouts only had a required “Learn about Religion” badge - I’d have no problem, but as far as I can see the requirement for signing on is believing in a deity, not “Deed above creed.”
The Catholic high school I am familiar with is open to all faiths, but every day begins with a prayer, 6th graders are given Bibles and students are encouraged to participate “actively”. They have one ecumenical service a year. The one college I’m familiar with is a lot more lax. The religious course requirement can be met with a wide variety of courses (including one on Existentialism). There were crucifixes in all the classrooms we visited. They have an imam, and a rabbi in the campus ministry building. I think an atheist could attend that college as long as they were respectful.
@maya54 I think the BSA is maybe four years out. Handling one G at a time every four years. 2013.- allow gays, acclimate, 2017 allow girls, acclimate, then maybe 2021 allow faith or no faith. Certainly BSA would not be in front of the umbrella organization (world) on this.
I am a former Scoutmaster 2013-2017 and as such, I was responsible for making sure that the boys had a belief in “God”. I did not define God to them and instead used the phrase “god of your understanding”. That can mean anything that would meet the “higher power” bar. I looked for a belief that there is something “bigger” than the individual and as such I was satisfied. Just my 2 cents.
Also note that when filling out the Eagle Scout application (for the rank of Eagle), you are required to have 5 letters of recommendation written for you. One of them is titled “Religious”. While those letters are not sent to me (they are sent to the District), acceptable is non-religious people writing about the Scouts belief (parents, etc.).
“One of them is titled “Religious”. While those letters are not sent to me (they are sent to the District), acceptable is non-religious people writing about the Scouts belief (parents, etc.).”
So, how do you fake that as an atheist? I assume writing about non-belief wouldn’t fly. How about a letter about Pastafarianism?
When my daughter was in Brownies, our leader was a male. I admit I raised my eyebrows a bit when the letter came from “Bob” identifying himself as the brownie leader ( he failed to mention in the letter that he had twin daughters in the troop, lol), but it turned out to be an awesome experience. Bob was the local plumber in our small, relatively conservative town. He planned and executed a ton of fun activities for the girls, largely focused on fishing, camping and building things with scraps of pvc pipe. Thanks to Bob being brave enough to defy convention, lots of dads ended up getting involved with the troop and the girls all benefitted. The troop did attend a statewide overnight get together and Bob was definetly the only male Girl Scout leader there. In fact, as a chaperone I had to track down the venue manager and get them to open the men’s room, lol.
Girl scouts was such a worthwhile experience. It was one of the very few noncompetitive youth activities. It didn’t cost a fortune, and could enable one to meet girls from other schools and socio-economic groups more easily. It was very unusual in being open to girls in foster care. Yes, the leadership could be bureaucratic and old fashioned, but since it was largely a volunteer organization, that just reflected who volunteered. I expect most little girls will now join cub scouts, where they will be overshadowed by the numerous boys. It was nice while it lasted, and I am glad one of my kids had the chance to form close female friendships in it. That wouldn’t have occurred in mixed cub scouts, but I wish them well.
My take is such an abnormal organization such as the Boy Scouts, which freely admits allowing child nudity as a defense from admitting gay scouts, really shouldn’t admit anyone. It should retire like the dinosaurs.
As for Girl Scouts not being competitive, both my experience and that of my friend’s children has been that it is perfect environment for bullying by girls and by their mothers. Having a long experience in volunteering, I can tell you that there are more than a few volunteer leaders who are in it for their child, and make it abundantly clear. Regardless of the GIrl Scout BFF campaign.
Yes, my children never joined any scouts because we are atheists. Not because they wouldn’t be welcome on a local level, but belonging to either type of scouts requires oaths to be said “to serve God” etc. My kids don’t say the “under God” part of the Pledge of Allegiance that Eisenhower added to fight the “Godless Commies”, but that is a bit different.
I have heard similar things about the Masons, that some locals have no issue with atheists who keep their mouth shut when they are supposed to, and say what they are supposed to during the rituals.
Well, your experience was obviously quite different than ours. My shy wallflower found a place to shine with similar girls and ended up being sent abroad by her council and giving regular speeches to public groups. I dont think you can necessarily generalize experiences among the 30 thousand girls in our council alone. It was such a nice change from youth sports and seemed to encourage some seriously nice values, but wasnt for everyone. Maybe not for you. But it was for us.
“BTW, I look forward to a return to E Pluribus Unum on the money and elsewhere.”
Me, too. Looks like it might be awhile.
So a kid who has considered traditional god-based religion and rejected it is somehow imperfect, and changing their mind would represent “growth”? Would it also represent “growth” and progress toward perfection if a kid entered scouts beliving in his parents’ religion, thought long and hard about it, and decided that he was a atheist? 
Back to our topic. I’ve never been a boy scout and don’t have sons. But I do think it can be very hard growing up, particularly for those boys who don’t have always have the mainstream/popular talents valued by others. The athletic, good looking, socially sophisticated, and the wealthy all have an easier time finding their niches and developing self esteem. In my area, boy scouts help at least some of the others in developing their esteem, and I think that is worthwhile regardless of its religiousity. Hopefully they will help similar girls now, too.
The Boy Scouts just evolved to allow girls, and is therefore not a “dinosaur” that should go extinct. For every comment on this thread complaining about scouts, there have been many more claiming that scouts benefitted their child. Tackling the God oath is a future issue BSA will no doubt will be dealing with. As for how spirituality is currently being handled, I think former Scoutmaster @jpc763 summed it up well: “I looked for a belief that there is something ‘bigger’ than the individual and as such I was satisfied.”
I do think the religion issue is pertinent if it represents a difference between BSA and GSA. If BSA is now an option for females, what the differences are between the two makes it relevant, IMO.
I had children in both organizations. Volunteered extensively for Girl Scouts, including as troop leader. DH and I volunteered in Cub/Boy Scouts. As a GS troop leader, I tried to present a variety of experiences for the girls and exposed them to many opportunities our council offered (one girl was involved in the council equestrian program, another in the council sailing program). Two went to GSUSA national conventions. We went camping twice a year. We took trips, including a train trip to Savannah.
Both organizations rely on volunteers to deliver programming. Just by reading the posts here, you can see the results are uneven. There are definitely more rules in place for GSUSA leaders - it is highly safety-conscious (perhaps insurance driven?), maybe excessively so. I’m concerned that girls joining BSA may be patronized (depends on the internal culture of each council).
We’ll see how this plays out. There’s a lot of good opportunities in both organizations.
What I said was that a “strict atheist” (perhaps I should have said “rigid atheist”) who is not open to belief in a higher power would probably have a problem in scouts. However, a scout who is agnostic, or open to learning about spirituality, would probably get along well. That is, until he reached the rank of Eagle, which is when he would be expected to have a solid sense of his spiritual beliefs.
I have known families who did not join scouts because they are atheists, and I respect their decision. I don’t think people should pretend to believe in a higher power to be in scouts since “truthful” is in the Scout Law. I agree with others, that scouts will probably adopt the world scouting guidelines and this issue will be resolved. Most parents and scouts just want to run quality programs, not fight social issues.
So, if the Mormons are leaving the BSA umbrella and setting up their own scouting type program, what’s keeping BSA from making the switch now or soon?
@rhandco, you are mistaken. The GS have no religious requirement. I am
an atheist and was a troop leader, and my kids are both atheists and were GSs – one earning the Gokd Award. That is a big difference between the two organizations.
MODERATOR’S NOTE: I’m closing the thread. Too difficult to keep it on track.