<p>Over the years, there have been a lot of discussions on CC on Boy Scouts as an EC, and one issue that has often come up is BSA’s policy against gay membership. As you probably all know, BSA just voted to change its policy with respect to youth members, but not adult leaders. I wanted to make a few comments about this for the possible benefit of those considering this as an activity for their sons.</p>
<p>Many people involved in Scouting, myself included, believed that Scouting was a good experience for our kids, and that eventually this policy would change, due to pressure from within and without. And that has happened, finally. I think it’s inevitable that the policy on adult leaders will also change, and probably soon. It is possible that BSA will decide to let the chartering organizations (ie., the churches, clubs, etc., that actually “own” the units) decide whether to allow gay leaders–something they really couldn’t do for youth members.</p>
<p>BSA will probably lose some members over this–I was pleasantly surprised by the decision.</p>
<p>It seems like a halfway decision that does not satisfy those who are most vocal on the issue.</p>
<p>However, it does seem to match the demographic attitudes involved – younger people who would actually be Boy Scouts themselves are much more accepting of gay people than older people who would be the adult leaders.</p>
<p>I was involved in BSA years ago as a leader, and at the time was not even aware of their policy excluding gays. There is no way I would be involved anymore knowing of their discriminatory policies. While they have at least taken a first step, they need to take a big breath and finish eliminating any policies which discriminate against any group in any way. I can’t imagine telling a boy who is a member that his parent cannot be a leader because that parent is gay. What message does that send to that boy who is being raised in a loving, nurturing home- that his parents are not good enough to volunteer? I refuse to contribute in any way to the BSA organization including buying anything from their fundraising activities. I always feel bad telling the cute little kids outside stores that I won’t buy anything. I obviously do not explain why, as they are too young to understand and it is not my place to educate them. But I do hope the BSA organization realizes that there are many out there like me who will not support their fundraisers as a result of their policies.</p>
<p>I am please by this but after hearing about their dependency on churches (which I didn’t know about) I’m not sure this is necessarily a wise decision on their part.</p>
<p>My best friend is an eagle scout. He’s also gay and one of those who sent back his badge in protest. We were both pleasantly surprised by this decision.</p>
<p>Many gay people I know are actually saying that this is worse than before because it’s almost saying to the kids that they’re okay and accepted now but won’t be as adults, and telling them that the Scout leaders are their role models and are not allowed to be gay. I do appreciate that the Boy Scouts are trying to take a good step, but I hope that they change the rest of the policy soon.</p>
<p>H and I were discussing this last night. He has been involved with scouts for a long time, and spent several years as the troop leader. He is concerned about potential problems because all kinds of things happen when you have a bunch of rambunctious boys to monitor. And he has seen all kinds of things. He doesn’t see the leadership issue changing soon because of past problems the scouts have had. It’s not as simple as people think.</p>
<p>^ That’s such a copout IMO. Gay boys and men have been in the scouts for a long, long time. Now the boys at least won’t have to live in fear of people finding out.</p>
<p>There have always been gay boys in scouts… so not sure why it is different to monitor them now than in the past. I found myself thinking about how it would feel to be a boy who had made Eagle Scout and was just turning 18. And gay… and going to your Eagle ceremony knowing you couldn’t have any role in scouting any more because of the limitation on gay leadership.</p>
<p>Sylvan, if they genuinely believe that men can’t behave themselves, then maybe they should allow gay women troop leaders. This discussion just gets sillier and sillier, IMHO, as the scouts continue to try to dodge the fact that gay does not equal pedophile. Kind of like a knot tying exercise… We are to the one where you are the rabbit going down the hole.</p>
<p>For the record, the problems were caused by straight leaders.</p>
<p>The new policy is based on the ignorant misconception that gays are, by definition, predators. The BSA is going to have to revisit this in a few years, when Eagle Scouts who are gay become adults and are then barred from further participation. That’s not going to go well.</p>
<p>My wife was a Girl Scout troop leader and one of my kids was a scout. They have no policy on sexuality. They say it’s a private matter and they respect personal decisions and preferences. </p>
<p>I continue to lack respect for the Boy Scouts. I have refused to help their fund raisers and will continue to do so.</p>
<p>Hunt: Thanks for posting this. I read it yesterday.</p>
<p>I am pleased they have voted to allow gay members. Imagine a family where one son is eligible to be a scout and one isn’t. Imagine being a young boy or adolescent and realizing this group doesn’t allow “your kind” </p>
<p>However, until they stop all discrimination I can not support them. I never contribute to their fundraisers when approached. I say nothing to the boys. I tell the leaders and adults involved why, even though it probably doesn’t matter to any of those individuals what I think. I find this type of discrimination evil. I don’t care to debate it, just wanted to post my opinion.</p>
<p>I think BSA knows very well that the leadership restriction has to change as well. I think they have decided to make the change in stages to try to avoid driving off their more conservative chartering organizations. As others note, it will not be tenable to tell the gay youth who will now be accepted that they can’t be leaders–thus, I anticipate a change on the leadership restriction within a couple of years, after it is clear that the change in youth policy has had no negative effects. Gay people are making a mistake if they choose to portray this as anything other than a victory. There have been many, many people within the organization pushing for this change, and it wouldn’t have happened if they had all bailed out.
You’d be wrong about this, since many of them agree with you. As is the case with many large organizations, there is often a big difference between what people at the unit level think (and what they do), and what the national leadership does.</p>
<p>I agree, hunt. But I personally don’t know any lgbt people who think this is a set back. Most I know, myself included, will take any baby steps that we can get.</p>
<p>Personally, I was very surprised by the decision. When this was first floated, and then delayed so they could undertake a “listening” program, I assumed that the big chartering organizations had put the kibosh on the change. But then, it appears, the Mormon church supported the change, and the Catholic church didn’t come out strongly against it. The final vote was decisive.</p>
<p>If I were in charge of BSA, I’d wait a year–or even less–and then put out a proposal to allow chartering organizations (which already select and approve leaders) to decide for themselves whether to consider sexual orientation in choosing leaders. If that became the rule, most of the heat would be off BSA, and would shift to those organizations that retained the restriction.</p>
<p>The Mormon Church supported this? I didn’t know. I could’ve sworn I heard that pretty much all the Utah branches threatened to break away because of this. <em>to the google!</em></p>
It seems to me that for every member they lose because of this, they will gain more. Myself included. There is no way I’d support an organization that discriminates like that. I have also refused to support their fundraising efforts or to allow my sons to join. And until they extend the same rights to adults, I will continue to boycott.</p>
<p>I echo the sentiment that several of you have expressed: step in the right direction but should have included adult leaders. When my son was earning his Eagle Scout badge and I was an involved parent, there was a strict rule against ANY adult being alone one-on-one with a scout-- overnight, in a car, in a conference session, etc. It seems to me that this rule would keep the homophobes happy.</p>
<p>That would satisfy anyone whose objection is that an adult might assault a kid. But BSA has tolerated assault by straight men for decades. Apparently, it’s the gay part of gay adults potentially assaulting kids that makes them feel icky, not the assault part.</p>
<p>GSUSA has the same never-alone-with-a-kid rule. They seem to understand that it’s always wrong for an adult to assault a child, regardless of the adult’s orientation. Crazy.</p>