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I don’t know what you consider minor, but I’m sure most of us would not consider whatever gross billings the hospital now stands at “minor.”</p>
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What I think is that as long as they are fighting, they are focusing their attention away from the loss of their child because they just can’t go there right now. My mother lost my sister when I was a child. I really understand that the psyche will do and accept and grasp on to anything in order to protect itself from reality. I just can’t fathom judging these people, I really can’t. And I agree with Consolation that the person who would be able to guide them is their pastor. I pray that they can let their daughter go. But I don’t think they were wrong to seek the intervention of the court, and I find it a little shocking that anyone would think that they are looking for the money already.</p>
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<p>My observations of this kind of thing taught me that it’s a precarious undertaking to keep organs viable under these circumstances. Systolic blood pressure must remain at 70 at a minimum in order to prevent cellular death in organs, and with brain death it can be difficult. Most decisions to donate organs occur within hours of a brain death diagnosis. I think in this case, it’s been two weeks. I am concerned that the window of opportunity to procure organs for transplant may have closed. Numerous lives could have been saved. However, this family may not have opted to donate the child’s organs even if they had accepted the diagnosis. Which, of course, is their right.</p>
<p>“I find it a little shocking that anyone would think that they are looking for the money already.” </p>
<p>They have a fundraising website. I found it shocking that a grieving mom was talking to reporters at the hospital over a week ago.</p>
<p>They are raising funds to keep her alive because they don’t believe she is dead. What part of that are you not getting? In their minds, they are trying to save their child’s life, not take a trip to Disneyland. One can agree or disagree, but they clearly believe that their child is alive and want to keep her that way.</p>
<p>Well, one cannot really agree or disagree if all tests say she is dead. I guess one can refuse to accept reality. But, not disagree. It’s not an opinion.</p>
<p>Thank you, Zoosermom - this is exactly what I was trying to get at and why I think it should be their decision. I too find it hard to comprehend why it’s so hard for people to imagine what these parents are thinking and feeling.</p>
<p>You CAN disagree if you want a second opinion - any test can be wrong. And if they already don’t trust the hodpital, that makes it worse.</p>
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<p>I don’t think they will. And I imagine there are legalities which will apply to any nursing home funded by medicare which will stand in the way of this as well. I have never heard of any facility accepting a patient with a brain death diagnosis-insurance won’t pay, this family clearly doesn’t have the means, etc.</p>
<p>As to ACS’s assertion that the family should be able to take their daughter home on life support: this child will need round the clock care. Family members can do a lot, but they will still need nursing care and the services of a professional to manage the ventilator, the tube feedings and any other health issues which are surely going to come up. I cannot imagine any licensed medical professional being willing to provide care to a dead person on a ventilator due to the ethical issues here, not to mention that it would all have to be done for free as they could not bill for care associated with a dead person. None of this works legally or logistically.</p>
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What we are disagreeing is their behavior and motivation. You think these people are greedy and, what? I think they are desperate to avoid the obvious. As I said, I pray that they can come to acceptance on their own. But I don’t think they were wrong to seek out the court’s intervention and, if they don’t come to acceptance on their own, the court has no choice but to make a decision that will not be popular with the family. But I would never, ever, ever judge them and they have my greatest sympathy and most fervent prayers. I am so sorry for their terrible tragedy. If doing everything they thought they could do and having the ultimate decision made by a neutral third party helps them to live with not having made the decision, then God bless them.</p>
<p>ACS - They are now headed for a 4th opinion. Second and third opinions were last week. I’m not going to pretend to understand their motivation and I’m not judging them. I think their lawyer is questionable.</p>
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<p>That’s why the court agreed with the family’s request to have an *independent *medical expert evaluate the child. He did so and concluded absolutely that the child is in fact brain dead.</p>
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Right. And that was a completely appropriate cause for judicial review. He has, compassionately, I think, given them a few days to come to terms and I think the decision will now be made out of the family’s hands to discontinue medical intervention. Which is the right decision and, in my opinion, the end result of a completely appropriate process.</p>
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<p>I agree. This is such a tragic situation. I would hope never to judge someone in their position, nor to ever have to be in the situation myself. May they find some peace.</p>
<p>Minor meaning out of pocket medical expenses, meaning not covered by insurance. </p>
<p>The lawyers would get their percentage, expenses for costs and experts would be deducted. It’s not a huge payday for either the lawyers, considering the amount of time they would invest, and with the lawyers fees and expenses deducted, not a huge payday for the family. And that could be years down the road unless they settle.</p>
<p>They’ll probably settle. Does insurance cover dead people? That could be another interesting battle given that she was declared dead weeks ago.</p>
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That could be a gray area. Thus the continuation of legal proceedings. It may be that legally today is the day she is declared dead.</p>
<p>As far as liability, no one knows yet what happened. People are making assumptions about what they think happened, but the truth that would come out could be run of the mill post-operative bleeding of an obese person, or there could be something that no one could possibly have expected. It is best to find out. Lawyers are not some sort of demons.</p>
<p>I believe she was declared dead on Dec 12, but can’t check that at the moment. There are links from the Merc site to PDFs of the doctors’ statements in court that give more details of how their determination was made.</p>
<p>She may have beeen declared dead already, but it’s still an active matter so the judge will have to make the ultimate decision.</p>
<p>The family needs patience from those around them and the public. In one fast moment, they lost their dreams for their child that stretched decades beyond their own deaths. And now we expect them to accept the recommendations of experts who previously failed them. Give the family time, there is no rush here. The experts and caregivers can only provide comfort and clinical updates until the family can find closure.</p>
<p>Also, we’ve only heard one side of the story. I’ve even heard that the bleeding occurred days after surgery. If this is true, this is not uncommon to occur. I have seen patients come to the ER in shock when post tonsillectomy bleeding started 7 days after surgery. We still need to hear the hospital’s side and they are doing their due diligence. They are keeping a lid on their defense until they have their day in court.</p>
<p>This is a tragic case but by no means equal malpractice.</p>
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Exactly.</p>
<p>But we don’t know if there was malpractice. Sometimes it happens. Sometimes it’s just fate. But it is not wrong to seek those answers.</p>