<p>Ive read that there are facilities willing to accept the child.
[Hospital</a> won’t let family move brain-dead Calif. girl to nursing home | Nation & World | The Seattle Times](<a href=“http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2022539569_braindeadhelpxml.html]Hospital”>http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2022539569_braindeadhelpxml.html)</p>
<p>That’s a ridiculous title. They’re not letting her move because she can’t move without being operated on and they refuse to operate on a corpse. It’s not like they can just throw her body in the car and drive her over and the hospital is barricading the door.</p>
<p>If the family can’t pay the bills – and they are going to be huge – all the rest of us will be paying them.</p>
<p>Well, the family has already said they need money to move her so…</p>
<p>Over the weekend an LA facility reconsidered. That story is dated. The lawyer was also talking about one in New York. But Romani is right. The hospital is refusing to put feeding tubes in a dead person.</p>
<p>This is a tragic situation. And it shows me how weird our society has become about death. We (Americans) seem to have an abnormal fear of death. I always find it interesting when religious people ( and I don’t know if this family is religious) fight death so hard. I always was taught that after death, one goes to heaven. I understand not wanting to let go of a love one, but I truly believe that the soul goes to another place and I have found peace in that. I wish peace for this family and I hope they allow this girl to finally rest. After four separate opinions, it is time to let her go.</p>
<p>I have a friend whose 9-year-old son suffered a traumatic brain injury at football practice a few years ago. The child was declared brain dead and they donated his organs. They also started a charitable foundation to help grieving families through the use of improvisation. (Friend is an actor). I always think of their example of how to navigate such a tragedy.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So how many “second opinions” should they get? Until they find one that tells them what they want to hear?</p>
<p>This is tragic. I think lots of people would want at least a second opinion before making such a major decision. But at this point, all the many opinions have come out the same. I understand the idea to “give the family time” but my understanding is that the young girl was declared brain dead over 2 weeks ago at this point. How long do you give a family, and at what expense to other family members, and yes, taxpayers?</p>
<p>People can believe whatever they desperately want to believe. And, as long as they personally are willing and able to pay the costs, I’d let them. But on someone else’s dime? No.</p>
<p>Grandpa’s still in the Tuff Shed. But not paid for by the town or any hospital. <a href=“nederlandchamber.org - This website is for sale! - nederlandchamber Resources and Information.”>nederlandchamber.org - This website is for sale! - nederlandchamber Resources and Information.;
<p>This story was in the news when I was in SF for a weekend earlier this month. How sad and tragic for the family.
DH has a cousin who is being kept alive in a vegetative state since she had a stroke delivering her fourth child 5 years ago. The family who are extremely wealthy have created a hospital wing in their home for her. The mother sits by her side all day long waiting for a miracle. They truly believe that a miracle will happen and she will open her eyes and be perfectly fine. They believe that if enough prayers are said here and in Israel as devout Orthodox Jews, there will be a miracle. The young woman’s husband of course has 4 children to raise, with help of course but is in legal limbo himself. He cannot move forward with his life either.</p>
<p>Even though it’s been around for decades, brain death is a concept that our society has never fully come to grips with.</p>
<p>Consider the term “life support.” Many news stories say that this girl is on “life support.” But that isn’t an accurate description. She’s already dead. So how can anything that’s being done to her be life support? It doesn’t make sense. But we still describe it that way.</p>
<p>In the back of our minds, how many of us believe that she isn’t “really” dead until the “life support” is turned off, and her body becomes cold and stiff? It’s hard to overcome our traditional view of death and truly accept the concept that “brain death” is real death.</p>
<p>And if it’s hard for us, how much harder must it be for her family? </p>
<p>Of course, not all families react this way. Many years ago, I had a neighbor whose four-year-old son was hit by a car. The child was declared brain dead within hours, and the “life support” was turned off the same night. The family was devastated by the tragedy, but they had no difficulty accepting the concept that “brain death” meant no hope of recovery. </p>
<p>Different families, however, react in different ways.</p>
<p>Judge just ruled that ventilator can stay for another week…</p>
<p>I’m 100% with Zoosermom on this - and about 75% with acollegestudent. This girl was 13 years old. A lot of people are telling them that their daughter is dead, but they can see her breathe, touch her warm face. You can be confident that there are people telling them that their daughter is not dead, too. The latter are probably largely charlatans and con artists but I can understand the mother of the child not wanting to let go of any chance - no matter how remote - that the 1% that are telling her that her daughter isn’t dead are right. She’s not a doctor. She has to rely on trust that people are telling her the truth, without the training to make an informed decision on her own.</p>
<p>The problem is that since Reagan signed the EMTALA back in the 80’s the taxpayers are the funders of last resort for medical treatment for anyone whose ability to survive is in question. So while the Mom might want to grab at every straw she isn’t paying for the straws. </p>
<p>I’m not impressed by the flat assertion that “She’s dead.” She is in a condition from which, based on our current understanding of physiological factors and medical knowledge she cannot be brought back to sentience. But the majority of the tissues of her body are not “dead.” That’s what makes it a tough issue. That “brain dead” means “dead” is a relatively recent and fairly abstract concept.</p>
<p>So I agree with acollegestudent that if her family could pay for it, there should be nothing preventing them from keeping her on a ventilator. It would be no one’s business but theirs’. I think they could probably find a doctor and facility to do the necessary operations, etc. to facilitate the move; talk of it being an “ethical issue” strike me as artificial. </p>
<p>But since they can’t pay for it (few families could) the question becomes whether the taxpayers should be required to do so - by EMTALA or any other law. And I suspect that no laws require a hospital to treat a brain dead patient.</p>
<p>The thing is that turning off the ventilator is irrevocable. While she is on the ventilator they can hold or kiss their child, do things for her even if she doesn’t know. If we all talk about how hard it is to let go when our kids leave for college, it should be possible to viscerally understand the desperate horror of letting go forever. I think we can be patient. Let the family exhaust its options.</p>
<p>Maybe it’s a good idea for all of us to look at our documents and brush up on DNR guides and keep active copies of living wills, power of attorneys, organ donation forms, etc.<br>
DW and kids were never very involved in our finances, and it’s this time of year I put together a document listing all our papers, insurances, mutual funds, and all our other accounts, IDs and passwords, etc.</p>
<p>kluge, this gets even murkier-a wealthy family can and does what it wants , no doubt. But I would hope , that no matter how much money a family has, an ethical doctor or facility would draw the line . As I think you are saying, no laws now insist that this has be paid for by taxpayers?
zoosersmom, how long do you give the family to “exhaust” their options? For some families, it can go on for weeks, even years.</p>
<p>I don’t give them anything. The court decides. It is when protecting the rights of unpopular litigants that our justice system most needs to be blind. This is not a matter for popular opinion. If there is a valid legal question, then irrevocable action should not be taken. What is the rush?</p>
<p>What is the valid legal question?</p>
<p>At first I was all behind the notion that this was so shocking and upsetting this family just needed time. The hospital wanted to pull that ventilator awfully fast. I understand both sides, but now as time is ticking and more and more medical personnel are weighing in, I get why the hospital doesn’t want to keep someone they consider dead on a ventilator and receiving care.</p>
<p>But I also get this family probably doesn’t have the best people advising them and they’re devastated. I have no idea the time limit you put on this but I hope there is someone in their corner who they trust and respect who can talk with them about this.</p>
<p>I would hate to even imagine being in their shoes and pray for that family to find some peace.</p>
<p>I haven’t read the papers, but the judge has decided in his discretion to extend the time, therefore the matter was properly before the court. I hope the fate of my children never depends on popular opinion.</p>