<p>Zoosermom, your brother and sister would be free to have a memorial service weeks or months after the death, and invite the people who they think would want to mourn with them. That wouldn’t conflict with your mother’s wishes, I don’t think, because it wouldn’t be a funeral.</p>
<p>Hunt is correct - it is cultural. One service really creeped me out - the mourners were kissing the deceased in the forehead. Talk about spread of disease from one living person to another!</p>
<p>Back to the topic of this thread…</p>
<p>I don’t mind going off topic. In my mind, a dead person doesn’t really have any interests. So I don’t really support burdening living people to cater to the unreasonable desires of a dead person. Of course, it’s a different matter if you made a promise to the person–then you have to carry through as a matter of integrity. But somebody who wanted a fancy funeral, but left no money to pay for it? I don’t think I’d feel bad about not following those wishes, unless it was no hardship at all.</p>
<p>I note, in passing, that if his friends had followed his wishes, we wouldn’t have many of Kafka’s writings.</p>
<h1>1702 - In my southern, Baptist family, for at least 58 years (my age), we have kissed the dead goodbye before the casket is closed. Do I think this is a grotesque practice? Absolutely. Am I going to share those thoughts with my older relatives? Absolutely not. That would be disrespectful. imho.</h1>
<p>I don’t think we really are off topic. The majority of posters seem to be in agreement this child is dead and offended with how her body is being treated after death.</p>
<p>As I mentioned, I was at a Jewish funeral recently. One of the customs that I hadn’t seen before was that the mourners–starting with the widower–were expected to shovel dirt into the grave. I thought this was pretty awful, but that’s apparently the custom.</p>
<p>We attended another funeral at which people were photographing the body.</p>
<p>At my dad’s funeral, both the pastor and I told a lot of jokes.</p>
<p>Everybody’s customs seem strange to others.</p>
<p>zoosermom–</p>
<p>I have seen something similar addressed by the executor/administrator under the deceased’s will that contains instructions. This person immediately notifies all heirs upon the death that the estate will only pay for the services/proceedings requested under the will.</p>
<p>That means that anyone that wants to lobby for something not requested has to pony up for it.</p>
<p>At my parents’ funerals, we did it all…</p>
<p>We all kissed them</p>
<p>We all photographed</p>
<p>We all told funny stories and jokes.</p>
<p>…and we all cried.</p>
<p>Hunt,
Since you are commenting on Jewish funerals. Observant Jews are buried in a “plain pine box.” Part of the reasoning is that just because one may be wealthier than others in life, when one goes to the grave, we are all equal. No grandiose shows of wealth with mahogany casket. And yes, although you thought that it was “pretty awful,” at Jewish funerals the mourners, beginning with immediate family, are given the opportunity to throw a shovelful of dirt on the grave. It is a respectful tradition and the family’s final ritual act of honoring the deceased person.
x-posted with lerkin who gave even more important detail.</p>
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<p>You describe it as if they really shoveled the dirt. You are supposed to drop just a little bit of soil on a coffin. </p>
<p>We do this as a sign of respect, even though it is painful, it is also considered healing (letting go). We do it reluctantly, and this is why we use the back of shovel when we do this.</p>
<p>This is usually reserved for the family and closest friends, so if people don’t want to participate they are not expected to. I am sure the widow knew what she was “expected” to do and I hope it was helpful to her. I am sure if she did not want to, the rabbi would not force her to do this.</p>
<p>More importantly, YOU did not have to do this.</p>
<p>ETA. x-posted with momof3sons.</p>
<p>I’m not Jewish or even religious, but shoveling a little dirt on the coffin (and this is the day after the death, because Jews believe the person should be buried right away) seems to me to be an appropriate gesture of finality and farewell. It seems more healing than keeping your daughter’s dead body on a ventilator for a month.</p>
<p>CF- while fundraising. That part is important imho.</p>
<p>I was not reading Hunt’s post as a criticism of funeral and burial customs different than his own. I was understanding him to use his own recent experience as an example of how uncomfortable customs with which we are unfamiliar can make us, even when we understand they are just as valid as our own customs. He is following up a post where he pretty much said all custom is cultural dependent.</p>
<p>I thought it was an apt illustration of the dangers of judging others using our own standards?</p>
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<p>ditto --applied to most rituals/customs.</p>
<p>alh, </p>
<p>then he should have described the experience accurately. It did sound “awful” the way he described it. </p>
<p>At all funerals I attended the rabbi describes why you do this, so he should have known why it was done. Moreover, never have I heard the rabbi using the words “shovel dirt” when they describe the ritual. Nor have I seen anyone being forced to participate.</p>
<p>alh, I did not particularly read it as a criticism. I just wanted to provide a bit of an explanation for others who may be reading every post.</p>
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<p>I didn’t see Hunt’s post as a criticism either. I’ve seen it done, participated, and am “used” to it, but I can see how it’s off-putting if you aren’t used to it.</p>
<p>I understand the response though, especially since I had a knee jerk reaction to BB’s post. I would guess she never imagined people on this thread actually kiss their dead in the casket. Most people I know couldn’t imagine that funeral ritual. I almost wrote a defense of it and I don’t even think it is a ritual worth continuing.</p>
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<p>I have not seen that, and I was raised in a Southern Baptist church. Maybe I was just averting my eyes.</p>
<p>catera,from the time I was a small child I was required to do this. It is scary for children. That is really my only objection to the practice. The idea is that it gives closure, final goodbye, and so on.</p>
<p>My family has the most rural and provincial roots imaginable.</p>
<p>We have used the same family run funeral home for at least four generations. These days we just ask them to check their records and give us whatever coffin was chosen for the last family member. Same with all other arrangements. It makes the whole process much simpler. Custom can be a very good thing.</p>
<p>I have a question - would / could a funeral home refuse to “permit” an open casket if the body were deterioriated to a certain level? (not just this kind of case, but someone maimed in a car accident, etc.) Or is that completely a “family’s choice” scenario? </p>
<p>Also, are funeral homes mandated to accept all “comers”?</p>