<p>SS–I don’t pretend to be an expert on ND history–that’s why I quoted your explanation for its creation (I should check up on my sources, even my fellow CC posters, I guess. :))</p>
<p>Garland, my point is that whether the mascot represents the founders or some later group, or some anthropomorphic character, it is chosen to represent positive qualities. You won’t see tree sloths as mascots. You see wolverines, right? Strong, fast, fierce. (Although I don’t get the whole buckeye thing…) If the Illini are not properly & respectfully represented, then the mascot could be updated to rectify any slight, intentional or not, that resulted. Using Native American mascots is not done to mock. And many tribes are happy to be honored. Their history HAS been marginalized. They are always presented as victims in modern history books. Hollywood depictions may have been one-sided in those John Wayne days, but at least the Indians were presented as courageous & honorable. </p>
<p>It is absolutely understandable that the true tribal tradition should be an honest depiction. Banning of any Native American mascot does nothing to honor America’s indigenous people.</p>
<p>SS–that’s a separate point from the one which described ND as: “snooty schools don’t like us, so we’ll found an Irish Catholic school.”</p>
<p>As far as this point–you have previously presented a case where this is true, at UF. Presently, I haven’t heard of any Native Americans who felt that the current depictions at U Illinois have any foundation in truth. I don’t think they really “need” to be honored by a mascot; I think they need more not to be dishonored by one.</p>
<p>I’m not “honored” by any mascot, and feel no need to be so. I happen to be married to a very tall leprechaun, but I don’t think he feels any need to be honored by a mascot, either. But, being among the much, much, less marginalized in society, it’s not much of a big deal to him, one way or another. </p>
<p>Though we do take great pleasure in rooting against our ND-loving neighbors in the big game every year.</p>
<p>“Using Native American mascots is not done to mock.”</p>
<p>Of course, the behavior of the numerous fans attending athletic games at which there are Native American mascots also does not mock or dishonor America’s indigenous people either. Who are we to say what honors or mocks others when we have not walked in their shoes?</p>
<p>I especially “like” the cartoon of the fan “honoring” Native Americans on this page:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.aistm.org/1indexpage.htm[/url]”>http://www.aistm.org/1indexpage.htm</a></p>
<p>I don’t think it’s a seperate point at all. Schools choose mascots that do two things: signify a connection to their history and depict qualities that athletes need to achieve victory. Illinois, named after the Illini tribe, had an easy choice with the indigenous people mascot. There’s a great deal of agribusiness in Illinois, so they could have gone with a farmer. A pitchfork wielding farmer perhaps? ND uses a fighting leprechaun because of its history of educating the once “marginalized” Irish Catholics. (Yet its athletes have always included other ethnicities & religions in their ranks.) Maybe your H is a few generations removed from those marginalized days for Irish Catholics & the mascot is not meaningful to him. Maybe he’s not from a Catholic family, and he experienced a different history. But for others, it is very significant.</p>
<p>SS–What do his views of ND or its mascot have to do with his views on being Irish? </p>
<p>No matter what the Irish history, which he knows very, very well, he knows he’s a white male, and on top of the heap in present-day America.</p>
<p>I think we’ve gone far afield of the question here, and time for me to opt out.</p>
<p>SS: well, I didn’t know that about the ND leprechaun and I went there! Thanks for the history lesson.</p>
<p>“You won’t see tree sloths as mascots.”</p>
<p>No but some school out in California does have a Banana Slug as its mascot.</p>
<p>When I drove through the Cherokee Reservation in western North Carolina a couple of years I happened to notice in addition to a lot of Cherokee that the mascot of the local school was an Indian Brave.</p>
<p>So Garland are there any other native American cultural misappropriation all us evil white men are guilty of. It is time to raise our consciousness now that you have our attention. Maybe we should stop planting corn, beans, and squash and give up those jalapeno peppers while we are at it. Can the House and Senate still caucus? How about that Indian on the nickel? I know the one on the box of butter has to go but what about the one on the dome of the capitol?</p>
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<p>Really? Even when the tribe itself says it feels dishonored by the mascot rather than honored? We should just assume they don’t know what they’re talking about, and the Caucausian culture is a better judge of what honors them than they are? Kind of like a Great White Father who’s always knows what’s best and it going to take care of them?</p>
<p>Sorry, I won’t be buying into that paternalistic load of bull today. Native Americans are not so unintelligent that they don’t know whether they are being treated with respect. If some tribes feel respected by the mascots named after them, fine, but other tribes are entitled to feel differently about it.</p>
<p>Bottom line, if your imitation of a person makes them uncomfortable, you stop, unless you’re a bully.</p>
<p>(or a professional comedian, but that’s dealing with public figures, not private individuals and their culture and religious beliefs).</p>