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Oh no! Impossible! What about color-blind people? :D</p>
<p>Hmmm… I’m quite a leftie, and I don’t care about American Football… but I still feel sad that a tradition had to go because of this PC madness. I don’t think there was a single person who equated the mascot dance with the real Illini. If we are trying to reject all the artistic symbols, what a dull world are we going to end up with.</p>
<p>Weak-sounding team names? Heaven forfend. I guess that fans of pro teams like the Red Sox, the White Sox, the Browns, the Reds, the Knicks, etc. are really missing out, because tougher-sounding teams like the Tigers and the Redskins are necessary to a good fan experience. I wouldn’t try making that argument in South Boston, though.</p>
<p>Not to mention the Alabama Crimson Tide. Most people don’t consider that program weak, and the name doesn’t seem to interfere with the enjoyment of the sports-loving student body and (arguably) the nation’s most devoted and enthusiastic college fans. No, I don’t see a whole lot of correlation between a good name and a good program that gives fans good fun. Compare the Yale Bulldogs and UGA Bulldogs…seems like the name doesn’t tell you much.</p>
<p>This reminds me of a controversy that occurred in southern Louisiana back in the 1980s, but in reverse. The African American students at University of Louisiana wanted to dump the mascot and name ‘Ragin’ Cajun’ because they felt a ‘white’ mascot could not represent them properly. The original mascot was a Bulldog (why is it always a Bulldog?) and they wanted to return to that name and imagery. I don’t think they ever got any traction on the issue though. It’s hard to argue ‘proper representation’ when you are proposing to substitute a dog for a man. ;)</p>
<p>btw…I sure hope the Irish don’t get irked with that sweeping generalization runnin’ rampant over there in Indiana that implies the Irish are genetically ill-tempered and ready for a fight. That would be a shame.</p>
<p>Seems to me, accuracy is a source of the problem in the case of the Illinis. Why not allow the school to come up with historically accurate imagery, costumes, dance and traditions that are respectful of the tribe, before opting for a ban?</p>
<p>“233…plenty of quakers to go around. Quaker Oil State, Quaker Oatmeal State, Quaker Chemical State. Hey, for those in the know, Wa Wa State University. Point is, as usual, money talks. Sorry for getting off topic.”</p>
<p>They’re about to start renaming subway stations in New York after corporations. Maybe they can even purchase squares in Monopoly. I live in a state named after a guy who never heard of the place, and in fact, probably never even imagined that it existed. Totally useless, and all we generate from it is confusion.</p>
<p>Whereas, as MicroState…" (we do have a town named “Starbuck”, and in California, there already is one named “Got Milk”.)</p>
<p>“are you saying there aren’t any fat white lefties”</p>
<p>As long as Michael Moore lives that certainly won’t be the case.</p>
<p>“guess it would be okay then to dress up as Hassidic Jews, or the 12 Apostles, or George Washington with big wooden teeth and make them mascots”</p>
<p>As an alum of George Washington University I will thank you to leave our mascot out of this arguement. However if you would like to go after the Pirates or the Raiders I do have a privateer in the family tree.</p>
<p>Also just out of curiosity is that Demon Deacon mascot of Wake Forest intended to stigmatize and humiliate there Divinity School students?</p>
<p>Getting lectured to by the NCAA on what is exploitative is a little like getting a lecture from Bill Clinton on honesty and fidelity.</p>
<p>One thing I always enjoyed about the NSU (La.) campus was the Go Demons! sign in front of the Baptist Student Union on football weekends.</p>
<p>Michigan State is even sillier, when it could be “Ford State”.</p>
<p>Well except Ford is kind of broke these days 
Besides don’t they already have Fordham?</p>
<p>Unies have been selling their names for years. Anybody ever hear of Duke, Stanford, Rice, Vanderbilt, Carnegie Mellon, or Tulane? And who the heck was Johns Hopkins anyway and what kind of stupid name is that?</p>
<p>Son’s school is the Demon Deacons–you’d think the Baptists would have a problem with that. My school mascot was a Mountaineer with gun, buckskins, coonskin hat and full beard–the “hillbillies” never got up in arms over that.</p>
<p>“Unies have been selling their names for years. Anybody ever hear of Duke, Stanford, Rice, Vanderbilt, Carnegie Mellon, or Tulane? And who the heck was Johns Hopkins anyway and what kind of stupid name is that?”</p>
<p>Well, I wanna see the state unis and the states themselves sell their names to the corporate socialists. They sold themselves a long time ago, so what’s in a name?</p>
<p>Why is a request for a little dignity and respect belittled by so many? If your intent is to trivialize an entire race, you are all certainly well on your way. Even if you did not intend to. And therein lies the problem. Much of our current insensitivity is unintentional. In part, this is done through perpetuating negative images of other people. And then refusing to acknowledge them when THEY ask you to stop (NOT the NCAA).</p>
<p>So yeah, what’s in a name? “Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me…” Tell that to the African Americans who grew up (and still are) called the N word. Tell that to the Native Americans who are called the R word (otherwise known as the name of an NFL team located in our nation’s capital).</p>
<p>Call me oversensitive. Or worse. After all, names do not hurt…</p>
<p>I agree with you, Scansmom. Is Chief Illiniwek the worst thing that ever happened to Native Americans? No (the colonists were!), but this and the mere fact that the mascot is a “tradition” does not mean that it is appropriate or respectful. Native Americans are among the most marginalized of Amercian minorities, in my opinion, and I think that the problem with Chief Illiniwek or the Redskins, or etc., is not that people associate them with actual Native Americans (I agree that they don’t)–it’s that the only time that many people ever think about anything about Native Americans is when they see a caricature dancing around on a football field. It has nothing to do with honoring Native Americans, and, as others have said, was not born in a time of concern for the Native American plight (if such a time exists now, which I am not sure of).</p>
<p>“Well, I wanna see the state unis and the states themselves sell their names”</p>
<p>Actually in the case of the Paul Tulane University of Louisiana the state of Louisiana actually did sell the university to a charitable trust set up by Paul Tulane. It was a public university, one rarely and sparingly supported by the legislature, that become a private university. </p>
<p>I am actually not sure it might not be a good thing for a few of our larger state universities to go public. They have become such diverse conglomerates that governence might be improved. The profit motive has of course had some notable failures in education, the University of Phoenix is having some troubles, but it also has had some success.</p>
<p>If a football team was named the “black skins” or “brown skins” there would be no tolerance for that so I’m of the camp, indeed I am, that the Redskins name has got to go.</p>
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LOL! I think that skinny little Leprechaun perfectly captures the spirit of Notre Dame. You don’t want us Irish Catholics at your fancy school? That’s O.K. We’ll build our own & kick your butt while we’re at it. I don’t know if this is the inspiration, because the current mascot was drawn in the 1960s, but the leprechaun bears a striking resemblance to those vile Thomas Nast cartoons that depicted Irish as apes. Kind of like blacks using th “N word” themselves to take away the sting.</p>
<p>The President of Ireland, Mary McAleese, gave the commencement address at ND in 2006. She spoke at length about the “Fighting Irish” and obviously relished the term. It is not seen as pejorative.
Here’s her speech: <a href=“http://newsinfo.nd.edu/content.cfm?topicid=17702[/url]”>http://newsinfo.nd.edu/content.cfm?topicid=17702</a></p>
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Well said. Again, the mascot is chosen to represent qualities that will help a team win, whether that is an anthropomorphized tidal wave or a leprachaun with his fists up ready for a fight. If the tribe in question is willing (as many are,) the mascot can be proudly used to educate & pay tribute.</p>
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<p>This makes a lot of sense; it’s probably why the Native Americans founded the University of illinois. Certainly historically it made sense for them to have a university of their own, just like the Irish and Notre Dame. </p>
<p>Um, they did found it, right?</p>
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<p>CGM, please stop with the negative stereotypes of football fans, it is really insulting and I don’t appreciate it. I am a huge football fan, but contrary to your rude assertion - I am a thin woman who would never show my b**t crack, I drink Chardonet, detest hot dogs, AND, would never burp or break wind publicly! </p>
<p>As scansmom said,
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<p>I am asking you to please stop with your negative stereotyping of people like myself!!!</p>
<p>“This makes a lot of sense; it’s probably why the Native Americans founded the University of illinois. Certainly historically it made sense for them to have a university of their own, just like the Irish and Notre Dame.”</p>
<p>Actally if I am not mistaken Notre Dame was fonded as a school for Indans and not a school for the Irish so I guess the Irish ought to be offended my the mascot ef garland?</p>
<p>Actually, ND was founded by a French priest & its earliest students probably included very few Irishmen. Lots of Germans. As ND grew, more & more Irish came on board, along with loads of Irish priests. The Fighting Irish were the predominately Irish football players. So just as the fighting spirit of the Illini is captured in the choice of the mascot, the fighting spirit of the Irish is captured in ND’s. Neither group “founded” the respective universities. But ND grew with a huge infusion of Irish who were not welcome at ivy league schools.</p>
<p>Yeah, but ND’s “mascot” so to speak is seen more as the irish leprechan guy running around the field and on almost every ND garment around. Leprechan’s unite!</p>