S25 (a classics/ancient history major with an eye toward grad school or law school in the future) was all set on W&M (OOS) as a Monroe Scholar, but got off the waitlist at Brown yesterday.
W&M seems like a near-perfect fit, but it feels hard to turn down an Ivy. Any thoughts on Brown vs. W&M Monroe for a humanities kid, specifically with regard to campus experience and law/grad school placement? Thanks in advance for any input!
Can’t go wrong with either one, but I agree that Brown - and not just because it’s Ivy - would be tough to turn down. If money is not an issue, I’d go with Brown.
Classics major from Brown a hundred years ago.
The best part of the experience for me was the ease of interdepartmental work. I had a research project with a supervising professor in Religious Studies, had a fantastic seminar ( 12 students, two professors) team taught by a Classics professor and a philosophy professor; many Classical Lit classes used “visiting professors” from across campus to teach drama, poetry, etc. My Art History survey course was taught by three professors…one an expert on Antiquity, one a Medievalist, and one from Renaissance Studies (second semester was taught by a plain vanilla Art Historian…post Renaissance through Modern).
It is tough to describe how exciting it was to learn about Antiquity through so many different perspectives. Language, philosophy, religion, political science, literature, architecture, urban planning and design (invented by the Romans).
So it depends on what a particular student wants to focus on… But you’ll never run out of courses to take! And the annual concert before Christmas…with orations in Latin and readings in Aramaic (the language Jesus likely spoke in his daily life) plus the music and excerpts from contemporaries in Greek… sublime! I hope it’s still on the calendar…I haven’t been in years.
I did Business School and not law school but my professors knew how to write a winning recommendation!!!
Good luck!
Take the money and run. The incremental cost is not worth it.
That’s a good problem to have!
A few clarifying questions:
First, what are the costs of the two schools for you / how important is it to stay under a certain number? (I have a guess here for the costs, but your COA could be different.)
Second, what was your son’s impression during campus visits at the two schools? “Seems like a near-perfect fit” for W&M seems pretty hard to beat! Was there anything about Brown that he was especially drawn to?
(Full disclosure, my twins are heading to W&M (OOS) this fall, but I’ll try to stay objective! And fun fact I just learned recently: Classical Studies majors at W&M don’t wear a mortar board at graduation, but instead wear a laurel wreath crown!)
These are both great options, and in my circles many kids apply to both Brown and W&M because of the overlapping appeal.
I agree that sort of points to cost being the central question. If the kid and their family can comfortably afford both, I think it is just a matter of personal preference. I do NOT think being an Ivy is an inherent virtue. However, Brown is in fact a wealthy private university, which can have some pros. But the Monroe at W&M is a very cool program as well, and I don’t actually think the culture at a hyper-selective Northeast private college is right for everyone (not even Brown, which tries to distinguish itself somewhat but I think is maybe less distinct than some hope).
If there is a substantial cost difference that would not be comfortably affordable, including in light of possible future law school costs, then I would at least seriously consider just going with W&M. Particularly with the new Monroe merit component, it is just a really good deal in my view.
What’s new about the merit? The $4000 sophomore or junior year was there in 2018 (my S18 was offered this). And I don’t know if it’s new but the $1500 freshman year is competitive (you are just “eligible to apply”). As far as comparing finances goes, I assume the biggest consideration is whether the student is instate. However we felt Echols at UVA offered more than Monroe at W&M (not least the flexibility to avoid GEs, which I guess is similar to the open curriculum at Brown).
A million years ago I was a Monroe scholar at W&M, and I turned down an acceptance at Brown to go to W&M. For me there was an obvious financial incentive (in state student) but the vibe at W&M just felt more me. At least back then, I think there were clear distinctions between the two in terms of campus feel. If your child has visited both, have they found the same? Does one feel better to them?
The Monroe money gave me an awesome opportunity I otherwise wouldn’t have had. (I spent a summer living in Paris, bumming around while working on my project, which was to write a tour guide for college age women in Paris - this was pre internet. I had friends who worked in Africa for Doctors Without Borders and who went to The Hague to study human rights abuses against the Roma.). It’s what you make of it, but not something to brush aside lightly.
W&M is also very good at getting their students into law school as a good number of us ended up at top20 schools.
Truly, I think both are great choices, so wherever feels most right is probably the right choice.
You asked about campus life, but it’s also worth thinking about the surrounding areas, which are pretty different. Brown is a contained campus in the middle of a vibrant city with great food and culture. W&M is in the middle of colonial Williamsburg, which is a small, tourist-heavy area with little for students to do outside campus; beyond the tourist section, the greater Williamsburg area is suburbs/exurbs.
Some people love the idea of going to school in Colonial Williamsburg; it is charming and quite pretty! But if your kid likes city life or wants more options off-campus, Providence has the edge.
What’s new about the merit?
There’s a new $10,000 per year credit towards tuition for OOS Monroes. It doesn’t bring tuition down to in-state rates or anything, but is a very nice (and unexpected) add-on.
That is in fact what I was referring to.
Not only is Providence an increasingly vibrant city, but it’s only about an hour train ride to Boston. I know people who commute between the 2 cities. Newport with all of its historic attractions, fun downtown, and access to ocean beaches is only a 45 minute drive and a little over an hour by bus.
You didn’t mention what your child might want to do with a law or grad degree, but if it’s work in politics or DC, then W&M might have a bit of an edge for placement. There’s a decent amount of DC outreach and internships, and there are usually some interesting adjunct professors or guest speakers from DC.
At the end of four years I was ready to be done with Williamsburg, but living adjacent to CW has some interesting benefits. I used to study in the colonial gardens, and go running through CW almost every day. Yes, the town rolls up the sidewalks when the tourists go to bed, but that just means that the students depend on each other and on campus activities for their entertainment. If students want to go see a “big” concert or similar, Richmond is 45 minutes one way, and Norfolk/VA Beach 45 minutes the other way. A bigger issue for you might be airplane access. If you aren’t a driveable distance away, then it is kind of a pain to get to a decent size airport. If you are on the 95 corridor though there’s an amtrak station not far off campus (I used to walk to it) and it’s pretty easy and reasonably priced to get a train to DC and points northward.