I’m sorry to be a downer, but I think that it’s far too early to start making such predictions, because things change very quickly, especially among teens. Puberty is starting to hit, and all bets are off. I’m also worried that, if you’re making college lists based on the assumption that your kid will have straight As, be in the top 5% of his class, etc, that it may create pressure on your son to perform to your expectations.
While it does look like you are really focussing on fit, which is always good, and do not seem to be pressuring your kid to “be accepted to an elite college”, I still think that starting the colleges search at that level this early is something that has many possible downsides.
While it’s not a bad idea to for your to start thinking of colleges, I think that the focus should mostly be along the lines of finances and what your student’s 4 year plan.
In all honesty, I think that it is more important that your son focus on theatre, history, tap, and fencing in his high school. Who knows if he’ll still be interested in any of these by his Junior year in high school? My kid’s interests and focuses changed quite a bit between freshman and senior years in high school, and these continued to change through college.
Thank you. My son knows that I expect him to put forth good effort in his classes and that’s it. I was trying to extrapolate from past performance but I’ve already agreed that including academic info wasn’t helpful as it isn’t relevant at this stage. I’m looking for any/all schools that have these programs. I’m trying to make a broad list of schools to start from, not a final list for applications. Determining academic fit will come much later, when he’s further along in high school.
Thanks. We’ve just been through this with my daughter and so we have a good idea of what will be available for my son’s college expenses and will share that with him as a part of this process. I also will take a close look at net price calculators, once we are further along in the process and have narrowed the list.
We have talked about his four year plan and he is pursuing these activities, to the extent that he can, in his high school. At the same time, he is interested in knowing what colleges might have these programs should he wish to continue with them. I don’t see those pursuits as mutually exclusive.
His interests absolutely may change and that’s fine. In that case, we can later ask about different types of schools and add those to the list at that time. But right now, he’s asking me to make him a very broad list of schools that meet one or more of the following criteria:
Has a solid BA Theatre program, preferable at at school that includes Theatre as one of their flagship programs (to reduce the likelihood of cuts to the program)
Has opportunities for non-majors to participate in quality and substantial Tap dance productions
Has an active club-level fencing program that would be open to a non-ranked student
Making this list is a starting point for the college search process for us - we will use this to talk about things such as size and location and campus-type - and over the next two years he’ll narrow it down. We’ll continue to add schools too, as he refines his thinking about what he wants.
Again, I realize this isn’t the way most people approach this process but it worked well for my daughter and my son is interested in beginning to think about college and asked me to help him build this very broad starting list. We currently have about 65 schools on the list but would love to hear about more that we may have missed.
OK, that makes sense. Having 65 colleges and looking for more really is the very early stages of looking at colleges. While I generally recommend looking at very general categories of college at this stage (like “large public research”, “smaller mostly undergrad publics”, etc), I can also see how the approach of starting with a very large set of colleges and then slowly whittling them down, would work pretty well, especially for people who prefer concrete examples to general, somewhat vague, categories.
Yes, that’s it exactly. With my daughter after we built the broad list she started interacting with schools on the list - looking at websites, online info sessions, campus visits, etc - and then she would think about the schools within those broader categories and would eliminate groups of schools based on size, location, etc. Starting with a list of schools with strong programs in her areas of interest also allowed her to see the variety in how those programs were delivered in a small school vs a large school, an urban school vs a rural school, etc., which helped her better understand what she wanted. She didn’t come to a final list of schools that she was going to apply to until September of her Senior year.
Except for size, University of MInnesota checks all of those boxes especially if he goes for the non audition Theater BA instead of the audition Acting BFA.
Yes and No. I started a list for S23 when he was a sophomore because I knew he had some “unique” things going on and I wanted tons of time to do research. The list wasn’t a list of schools he had to apply to. It was a list of schools to research. I made spreadsheets to look at price, offerings, geographic area, size, etc. It was a way to focus on a large assortment of schools but also weed out schools that didn’t have anything on our interest list. I could sort in multiple ways and make plans to visit schools when we were in the area. S23 could make sure to get in contact with OA’s (and coaches) if they/we were in the area. When we did go on tours, S23 asked great questions because he was able to compare and contrast the information he learned about other schools.
Then, S23 surprised us and changed what he was sure he was going to major in AND decided not to continue with the recruiting process. Was my list useless? No! We took what we learned from the few visits we did and the information we had already gathered and applied that information to build a new list. If you and your kid are planners and researchers (S23 loves research) it’s never too early to start making a list. My son learned so much from the process that by the time he was ready to send his applications, he really knew what he was looking for, why he was applying to the schools on his list, and was able to talk confidently about those decisions. I do believe this paid off with acceptances to all of his top choices.
Thanks all. I don’t think I was explaining myself very well so I appreciate you all chiming in to better describe what I hope our process will look like.
Yes, exactly! I am putting together a research list right now, not an application list.
Excellent - thanks! I know nothing about fencing so any resources are super helpful.
Thank you. His current size range roughly equals the population of his high school to the population of our town because those are sizes he can visualize right now. I think once we visit some of the larger schools on his list he might have a better idea if he would be OK with an even larger school. I’m glad to have those suggestions here on this thread so that I can go back and add them in if he does decide to expand his size range.
Remind him that some universities have medical schools, Ag schools, vet schools, etc. which are nowhere near the campus which has undergrads. So the number of students at the entire U isn’t relevant for his experience.
Right. That’s a good point. On my spreadsheet, I’m tracking undergraduate enrollment specifically and trying to keep that number within his parameters. But a school of 10K that is undergrad-only is going to feel very different from a school with 10K undergrads that also has multiple graduate schools and another 10K grad students. So that will be important to keep in mind as he considers how comfortable he is with the size of the institution.
W&M fencing is great. They just celebrated their 100th anniversary. Patton Oswalt was a member. They perform well at tournaments and are a super supportive group of kids.
One of the great things about having an interest in arts programs is it tends to give students an instant community that can make a big school feel small. That’s one aspect my kid enjoys about UMN - boundless resources and opportunities at a public research institution but a BFA program with a cohort of 19 people. The BA is around that same size, too. If memory serves from my kid’s application cycle, pretty sure all this is possible at Northwestern, too.
The Venn diagram overlap here may be pretty small. It may be worth asking which activity he’d be most willing to pursue in an off-campus setting (for example, a fencing club or dance studio near the college) in order to broaden the list.
Here’s one possibility: K-State Fencing Club K-State Tap Ensemble K-State Theatre BA
K-State has about 15K undergrads and is widely lauded as a happy and friendly campus. They have history and econ majors, as you’d expect, and also a Model UN program that has reportedly done well in recent regional competitions.
Your post also makes me wonder, though… would your son possibly be interested in schools that specifically offer programs in Public History? That might give him more opportunities to combine his interest in theater and performance with his academic interest in history, i.e. in the sub-field of historical interpretation.
Here’s one example of an undergrad public history program: Appalachian State BS in Applied & Public History
App State also has a tap ensemble and a fencing club… and a Theatre Arts BA. And an Honors College that could “make a big school smaller.”
Thank you! I agree, there may not be many schools that offer all of these things. My son read your reply and agreed that Public History would be something of interest to him. Both schools are now on our list.
Using the presence of a Public History program as a first filter, here are a few more ideas:
Union College (NY - 2100 undergrads) has a Theater BA, a Public History minor that includes internship opportunities, a dance program with tap classes and a tap club (quality unknown), a fencing club (quality also unknown), and all of the usual majors (history, econ, etc.).
Kalamazoo College (MI) doesn’t check all the boxes, but might be workable. They don’t have a formal Public History program, but their majors are very customizable, and their history department page includes resources for public history careers… plus K-College has cross-registration with Western Michigan U, only half a mile away, which does have a robust undergrad public history program. K-College has a Theatre BA that is expressly friendly to cross-disciplinary pursuits. They also have a fencing club, although it’s very small (only 15 members last year). The weakest point is tap, but I’m betting that could be found in the surrounding community, which is quite vibrant. (WMU itself looks great history-wise, but their theatre program is too intense/conservatory/BFA-ish. Dance is a little less closed-off, with a BA option in addition to the BFA, so classes in that department might be open to cross-registration.) K-College is a little smaller than you want, but the adjacency to WMU makes the combined student community much larger and quite artsy, so… not perfect but interesting enough to mention.
William & Mary would be worth serious consideration, particularly if colonial-era history is of interest (TONS of public history activity around Colonial Williamsburg). They have a very strong history major and a certificate program in Material Culture & Public History. There’s a Theatre BA, a large, multi-level fencing club, and a tap club. If W&M is of interest, he might consider applying to their pre-college program for next summer: Pre-College Program in American History | NIAHD | Arts & Sciences | William & Mary This seems like the most promising “reachy” school I have found - but a realistic reach for his anticipated stats. (And if it truly hits the sweet spot, and the OOS cost would be affordable, Early Decision improves the odds quite a bit.)
That’s all I’ve got for now, but at least there’s some “proof of concept” out there!
When reading your initial post the first school that came to mind is Xavier in Cincinnati with about 4900 undergrads. It has a BA in musical theater (no audition) which isn’t always easy to find. It also has a fencing club and though I haven’t found a tap dance club, I did see that it offers classes in both beginning and advanced tap (among other dance classes).
Another school he may want to check out is Chapman in California with about 7900 undergrads. It has a tap ensemble and offers a BFA, BA, and minor in dance (with, I’m assuming, tap classes available). But selecting any of those options requires an audition. It does not, however, appear to have a fencing club.
Slippery Rock mentions tap as one of the forms within its University Dance Theatre company (source) and offers a BFA and BA in dance as well as a minor in dance performance. No fencing club appears available, though.
Duke and U. of Michigan both appear to have tap ensembles and fencing available, but both schools should be considered low probability schools, even for very strong students. Villanova is also a harder admit that offers a tap ensemble, but does not appear to have a fencing club. Its location in the Philadelphia metro, however, means that fencing is likely available in the area.
Found another possibility that has more approachable admissions. Sacred Heart mentions tap as one of the forms that is used in both its dance company and its dance ensemble (source) and it also has fencing. There are about 6800 undergrads at this Connecticut school.
U. of Wisconsin - Whitewater: About 9400 undergrads at this residential college which offers a public history major and has a fencing club. Although there’s a dance minor within its theater program, I did not see a mention of tap.
Thank you so much! I appreciate knowing that there are schools out there that might have all of the programs he’s looking for. You’ve given us some great new options and more good info on William and Mary, which will definitely be top of the list.
