Business casual?

Parent Cafe
41

<p>Oldfort- that guy would be right at home in Dallas or Nashville!</p>

42

<p>

</p>

<p>Some really old fashioned financial companies friends worked for and a biglaw firm I worked at. Being inside of such environments as an employee and visitor at my friends’ workplaces only solidified my impressions that formal corporate dress codes are implemented to do the following:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Show who’s boss and the culture he/she/they prefer. Dilbert could have been a documentary on Corporate America…if they hadn’t pulled punches by portraying the pointy haired boss as more lively/intelligent/imaginative than real life. </p></li>
<li><p>Such codes mainly cater to the “style over substance” folks in the executive suite and snooty clients. In short, the same types of folks who want everything tailored to their aesthetic tastes…and then complain if such tailoring is “too expensive” and/or clashes with function(i.e. Tastefully designed desktop/laptop* is found to have higher than average failure rates due to overheating issues/cutting corners on the substance to meet price & profit points). </p></li>
<li><p>Most importantly, they’re meant to enforce some sort of a hierarchy to let everyone know their place. No humor or fun is allowed unless cleared by the CEO, board, and corporate counsel. :)</p></li>
</ol>

<ul>
<li>I.e. Sony Vaios.</li>
</ul>

43

<p>

I agree that if the office has rules then the employees should comply with them - perhaps while working on getting the rules changed to something more reasonable - like less formal. ;)</p>

44

<p>Re: #42</p>

<p>Dress clothes can also be a status marker. For example, dress clothes give the following signals:</p>

<ul>
<li>The wearer does not need to do significant physical labor at work or commuting to work.</li>
<li>The wearer is not exposed to temperature or weather conditions much different from a climate controlled office for more than very short periods of time.</li>
<li>The wearer has no need for protective or functional clothing at work. Indeed, ties are often anti-functional, as hazards around machinery, or pathogen carriers in medical environments. Women’s high heeled shoes are another example of anti-functional dress.</li>
<li>The wearer can afford the dress clothes and the custom tailoring often needed to make them look good.</li>
<li>The wearer can afford the cleaning and maintenance of dress clothes.</li>
</ul>

45

<p>

</p>

<p>Perhaps that is true that a common attitude at innovative Silicon Valley computer companies is that “I don’t care” how you dress (in a non-customer-facing situation), but “I do care” about the quality of work you do. Indeed, perhaps it is better that the talented employees are spending time doing work and relaxing/recharging in their off time instead of spending extra time getting dressed in the morning, dealing with dry cleaning and tailoring, etc.</p>

46

<p>

</p>

<p>Or, depending on the environment, it could look like “I’m normal.”</p>

<p>My son works at a Silicon Valley tech company, and if he ever showed up at work in a shirt with a collar and nice khaki pants, his co-workers would think that he had either lost his mind or had some commitment after work that required him to “dress up.” </p>

<p>The definition of “caring about your appearance” at his company is “not wearing the same clothes you wore yesterday and presumably slept in.”</p>

47

<p>My office is casual - casual. Jeans and t shirts are perfectly fine. We step it up a notch if clients come, and I dress polished business casual when leading workshops, since I’m “on stage” and need to be visually interesting (statement piece, colorful scarf, etc.). But those business suits that I started my work career wearing are long, long gone.</p>

48

<p>In my company - sales people wear suits, account managers wear khaki’s & polo shirt with logo, and office workers who don’t see anyone look like anything goes. I stopped jeans because people kept wearing torn up jeans. We have a 350+ lb woman who wears tight pink stretch pants. I try and lead by example, it doesn’t matter that much what you wear to the office, but I don’t want to look at people working for me looking like slobs. The impression clothes give is you give the effort of what you are wearing. So if you look like a slob, I think you work sloppily. </p>

<p>It’s no more difficult to put on a pair of dress pants and nice top then stretch pants and a tshirt. It’s no more difficult to slip into dress flat as it is to wear sneakers. Ultimate comfort is for home when you’re in your pajamas.</p>

49

<p>Cobrat, your points #1 & #3 (post 42) are spot on in this case. The company has about 30K employees, most of whom dress casually but not mgt. and especially not sr. mgt. The HR execs are quite particular; one guy would have the vapors if dh followed an earlier suggestion about wearing a short sleeve shirt with a suit, it just isn’t done. </p>

<p>Some of the upper echelon seem to have a strong need to reinforce their status through expensive clothes and shoes. A few are appalled that dh doesn’t have his shirts and suits custom made. One guy who used to report to dh tried repeatedly to give him the name of his tailor and even made an appointment for the tailor to come to the office to show samples and do a fitting. (Dh didn’t oblige.) Some of the women discuss their costly designer shoes & bags at quasi-social gatherings in front of admin. assts. whose weekly pay wouldn’t cover one purchase. Not everyone in the company is obsessed with status. Enough care more about performance than appearance or else dh wouldn’t be in his position.</p>

<p>Anyway, since the heat is crazy and a lot of (the picky/formal clothing obsessed) folks are on vacation, dh decided that he and his group will dress casually this week. No walls tumbled yesterday; we’ll see how it goes the rest of the week.</p>

50

<p>We recently changed our business casual effective July 1 to professional.
My company is in Florida and HR was counseling too many for refusing to adhere to the code. (ie. a minimum two inch tank top/dress strap;<em>We now do not allow sleeveless for women. Our no flip flop has turned into all flats shoe must have a noticeable heel, and when the no denim had most guys showing up in baggies and</em>cargo pants. We now ask for an adherence to Dress slacks, Long sleeves and a tie for men.)
After a little grumbling when first posted, the end of May, everyone quickly upped their game, we have seen a positive shift in energy levels.*</p>

51

<p>

</p>

<p>Hmmm, you want to force employees to wear anti-functional clothing (ties and high heels)? High heels are also not good for people’s feet as well.</p>

52

<p>What type of business in Florida? No flat shoes??? Can you even purchase a dress with sleeves? I can see a business following a khaki slack, solid color polo shirt and closed toe shoe policy, but the tie, long sleeve shirt, no sleeveless dress and heeled shoe is restrictive.</p>

53

<p>

</p>

<p>That’s an understatement. I know dozens of middle-aged and older women who have severe knee and feet problems because of having to wear high heels for professional and “fashionable” purposes. </p>

<p>It’s painful to watch…and this is coming from someone who will never have to don what some friends call the modern equivalent of footbinding. While the health issues/injuries I’ve observed may not approach the severity of the latter, the comparison does have some merit considering how crippling they were to the women I knew/observed. </p>

<p>Also, considering this is in reply to #50 who is from Florida…one reason why they may be wearing casual clothes is because the weather tends to get very hot and sticky in the summertime. In such contexts, mandated formal businesswear and the “high energy” he/she’s seeing may either be just his/her imagination and/or a sign of fear after the pointy-haired boss(es) decided to issue their dictats.</p>

54

<p>If I worked for your company, I would have to look for another job or at least go to HR and create a fuss. I can’t wear heels because of persistent problems related to breaking my leg five years ago.</p>

<p>And even if I could get an exception made on that point, if your professional dress code requires skirts for women, I might make my colleagues uncomfortable because they would have to look at my ten-inch surgical scar and the conspicuous odd-shaped lumps on my leg caused by surgical hardware within. </p>

<p>Fortunately, in the business casual environment in which I work, I am never required to wear skirts, and I can wear any kind of shoes I want. Most of my colleagues have no idea that I have any sort of problem, and I look completely normal.</p>

55

<p>I find the ever increasing “casualization” of America very depressing. It’s appalling that to most these days wearing a sport coat is considered “dressing up” when such a jacket is decidedly casual wear. And to those who say it’s unbearable to wear a jacket in summer, that is just nonsense. That is the time of year one must switch to linens and silks, but it is perfectly possible and comfortable to wear a jacket and tie in warmer temperatures; I do it regularly (and no, I don’t jump from AC to AC, but do a decent amount of walking about outside). Also lamentable is the disappearance of men’s hats (ball caps don’t count (and really are not very appropriate at most public outings, anyway (and for the love of all that is good take your hats off indoors!))). I know I must sound like some bitter old codger (I’m really only in my 20’s!), but I just wish people would take a bit more pride in their appearance.</p>

56

<p>

</p>

<p>Some people might not want to remove their hats.
<a href=“http://www.masala.com/images/tmp/full/rocketsingh3_full.jpg[/url]”>http://www.masala.com/images/tmp/full/rocketsingh3_full.jpg&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/9559295/2/stock-photo-9559295-young-jew-wearing-yarmulke.jpg[/url]”>http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/9559295/2/stock-photo-9559295-young-jew-wearing-yarmulke.jpg&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/3504796495_b-spring-fest-016.jpg/220px-3504796495_b-spring-fest-016.jpg[/url]”>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/3504796495_b-spring-fest-016.jpg/220px-3504796495_b-spring-fest-016.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

57

<p>author, I was on board with you until you got to the no flats. Seriously? Hopefully those with a medical excuse can get a pass on that. </p>

<p>I was soured on really high heels when I started to work with 50 year old women who only wore heels standing in banking centers for years. We had six foot surgeries in two years in a small department.</p>

58

<p>I thank God for “casualization.” I certainly would not be able to work my computer with gloves on, my ostrich feather and netted hat would obscure my vision and deary me, but that bustle and corset gave me the vapors on hot days. Indeed, it twas all quite lamentable.</p>

59

<p>I agree the no flats rule is cruel and unusual punishment.</p>

<p>I think summer suits are fine for summers in northern Europe, not so much for typical US summers. Glad I don’t have to wear one. I think they are the main reason so many US offices are kept so ridiculously cold. I think we should turn down the air conditioning and recognize that our clothing styles are based on silly 19th century conventions.</p>

<p>My brother and my son are busy doing their best to bring hats back in fashion. My brother wears a fedora in the winter and a boater in the summer. DS has a top hat, a fedora, and Indian Jones type hat among others.</p>

60

<p>

</p>

<p>Hm… I physically could not work there then. I have a very bad knee. If I wear shoes with heels (even small ones) for any decent length of time, my knee swells up.</p>

<p>The three places I work are: business casual and two casual. Ironically, the one where I never see people is business casual and the one where I’m a salesperson and one where I work in client support (it’s a shelter) are both casual. </p>

<p>I like going to work a lot more when it’s casual dress. I worry less about whether or not I’m meeting dress code requirements and more about my job. Just my own preference but I’d FAR rather work in casual clothes than business casual or business formal. I’m oddly proportioned so it’s hard to find dressy clothes that look good on me. I have a few, but casual clothes are easier to find and just look better. I don’t dress sloppy by any means, but nice jeans and a button up shirt or plain t-shirt or something.</p>