<p>Sleeveless dresses and shirts make an appearance here occasionally even though they aren’t supposed to, and it’s overlooked, but it still blows my mind… It’s been in the mid to upper 90s every day for weeks here but I still cannot imagine wearing bare shoulders to work. My dresses have sleeves, and the two that don’t I wear something to cover my shoulders.</p>
<p>I might feel differently if I lived somewhere where walking or taking public transportation to work were even an option, but that’s not the case here and the A/C is making it so cold in here I can barely move my fingers to type.</p>
<p>Obviously religious head wear is excepted, but it seems that etiquette and manners have all but disappeared from the vocabulary of people today. Also, it still baffles me how jeans became the go-to pants for so large a percentage of the population. Jeans are ditch-diggers cloths, meant to be worn for manual labor and not at all appropriate for general out-and-about clothing.</p>
<p>I don’t think they’ve disappeared. They’re just changing. Less than 100 years ago, it would have been absolutely appalling for a woman to go to work in anything other than a skirt/dress. Luckily, we’ve grown :). </p>
<p>CloseToTheEdge, those are your opinions. To me, jeans are wonderful because they’re durable, comfortable, and cheap. Sorry the majority of the population isn’t prim and proper enough for you.</p>
<p>Ema, that’s how it is at my work, too. I’m almost convinced that we could fix Michigan’s deficit if the government buildings’ AC weren’t set to “arctic”.</p>
<p>Not everyone feels a need to wear dressy clothes to send certain types of status signals while restricting one’s possible activity (see post #44).</p>
It’s not about sending status signals, it’s about presenting oneself in a professional, appropriate, and pleasing manner and wearing something other than jeans and a t-shirt or similar is hardly “restricting.”</p>
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I would say the majority of people (e.g. college students) don’t need to do such labor, yet it seems the vast majority of people still want to dress like they do. </p>
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As I said before, the notion that it is insufferable to wear a jacket in summer temperatures is simply not true. A lightweight linen or silk jacket breaths nicely and is perfectly cool.</p>
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Clothes that are not simply jeans and a t-shirt are not necessarily expensive at all. Indeed, the majority of my sport coats were purchased for $50 or less, and one well maintained will last for years.</p>
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Again, not necessarily any more expensive to maintain. My pants and shirts get tossed in the wash with anything else; I hardly ever even iron (if you remove the clothes promptly from the dryer wrinkles are minimal). As for my jackets, I rarely find the need to clean them frequently and get them dry cleaned maybe once a year.</p>
<p>So again, these are nothing more than facile excuses, but who am I to go against the will of the people to dress like slobs.</p>
<p>I’m wondering if the men have to wear shoes with a noticeable heel or just the women. :)</p>
<p>My company (100K+ employees) has a simple rule: you meet with a customer or a supplier, you dress professionally. Otherwise, it is business casual for the office areas. This runs the gamut from jeans and polos to dress slacks and dress shirts (no tie) for men with the occasional utilikilt thrown in for good measure, and jeans to skirts and dresses for women. (Today I’m in Paige jeans, blouse, cardigan, and Cole Haan loafers.) I’ll be at my desk most of the day & am happy that the building heating system is working properly & I don’t have to have a blanket over my legs.) While some people will push things (sheer blouses, shorts, flip flops), the majority do ok.</p>
<p>I think it all boils down to common sense and the prevailing attitude in your business. Finance/law are always going to be more conservative than software/manufacturing. Dress accordingly.</p>
That’s reason enough to strike your company off of the list of potential employers for many.</p>
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Appropriate to who - you? Just because ‘you’ happen to want to dress a certain way doesn’t mean everyone else should conform to your sartorial idiosyncrasies to please you. In fairness I’d also say that if you happen to show up at the ‘casual’ office dressed in your suit, tie, long sleeved shirts, hat, (cuff links?, hanky in the breast pocket?, spit polished black patent leather shoes?, etc.), it’s acceptable as well.</p>
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It absolutely is insufferable to many, including me, and who are you to say what’s comfortable to other people? I think it’s flat stupid to have to wear a long sleeved shirt, jacket, and tie in all circumstances (ever worked in Phoenix in the summer?).</p>
<p>There are lots of people who push the limits of good taste with their interpretation of business casual (male and female), but also some who don’t look so great even in business dress. A frumpy polyster pant suit with ill-fitting undergarments doesn’t do it for me!</p>
<p>Today I am wearing neon pink Gap pants with a striped knit top (dressy t-shirt), Tom’s canvas shoes and a light linen blazer because I freeze with bare arms. It is a more casual day due to the holiday, but we are always business casual with jeans on Friday. Winter Fridays people wear sports jerseys or t-shirts for the local teams. </p>
<p>I think the visible heel requirement mentioned is intended to rule out athletic shoes, flip flops and Tom’s-type shoes. It would apply to male footwear, too.</p>
<p>Close, it might interest you to know that one of my jobs REQUIRES us to wear casual clothes. If we’re too dressed up, clients feel uncomfortable. They used to require business casual but it made our clients feel uncomfortable. So jeans (or other casual clothes) are what we’re supposed to wear. </p>
<p>Also one of the perks of living in a university city- even though it’s a government office, if it’s a big game day, we’re allowed to wear college gear and good jeans at my business casual job. Even the governor said it was OK ;)</p>
<p>Long time ago (more than 15 years ago), as an undergrad, I and my classmates were on campus, interviewing for Microsoft. None of the students who showed up in suites got second (on-site) interviews. Everyone else got second interview.</p>
<p>“I wish I had invented blue jeans. They have expression, modesty, sex appeal, simplicity - all I hope for in my clothes.” Yves Saint Laurent</p>
<p>You can’t swing a dead poodle in Los Angeles without hitting someone wearing a $700 pair of jeans. Casual dress has nothing to do with cost, but everything to do with modernity.</p>
<p>“Some observers suspect that a collapse in grooming and attention to dress has contributed to the decline in civility on our streets and in our politics. People don’t care what they look like in public because they don’t care about the public. They have little notion of, or interest in, playing a supportive role in their civilization.”</p>
<p>If the last fifteen years have taught us anything, it’s that some of the biggest crooks in America dressed in bespoke suits or Brooks Brothers finest.</p>
<p>Decline in civility in politics has a lot more to do with a shrinking or insufficiently growing economy. Under austerity conditions, people tend to get politically nastier in trying to force others to accept austerity (lower government services or benefits and/or higher taxes) while trying to shield themselves from any such austerity (“hands off my Medicare”).</p>
No it doesn’t. I dress very casually and haven’t assaulted, robbed, or embezzled yet. Interestingly, politicians and even the bankers and Wall Street crowd that so many people think are evil are usually the ones dressed in the expensive attire. There’s no cause/effect here at all. </p>
<p>The link you provided is just someone’s opinion. Just because it’s in virtual print doesn’t mean it has any credibility.</p>
<p>You need to understand you can’t please everyone or control their perceptions. You’re looking at this from your strict viewpoint based on your own preferences and possibly your background. That’s not a problem until you try to impose your preferences on others or you start leaping to conclusions about others based on a superficial factor such as the clothing they happen to be wearing. It’s especially an issue when you reach these conclusions based on clothing that the vast majority of the population and all walks of life, wear at various times.</p>
That is a logical fallacy. Just because you personally don’t do something does not mean you can then extrapolate that personal experience to a general trend.</p>
<p>In any case, I just can’t help but wish that we could raise our standards back up a bit when I see people out and about in wifebeaters and low slung pants or pajamas. How can I take someone seriously who doesn’t care enough about himself to present himself as other than a slob or worse?</p>
<p>I work for a very prestigious law firm. Like most law firms in Manhattan, the dress code is business casual with the expectation that a suit will be kept in the office for urgent situations and always worn to court or certain other meetings.</p>
<p>Generally, however, men wear khakis and golf shirts or button down shirts with no ties, while women wear slacks, capris, skirts with blouses or casual dresses. The women tend to be more creative in choice of attire and, because it’s Manhattan, there are often very stylish shoes. Mathmom hit on a good point earlier. My office is brutally, hideously cold all year. There are countless contraband heaters, people wear jackets for warmth, and one female attorney actually wore a coat all day in the spring to make a point.</p>
<p>As a matter of personal preference, I feel that one of the perks of my job is to be able to admire a fine-looking man who is well groomed and wearing a designer suit, perfectly pressed shirt, polished shoes and particularly, a creative tie that says something about him. I adore a blue-eyed man in either a crisp, white shirt or a pink shirt.</p>
<p>One of the accountants in my office wears knee length denim shorts and shower shoes (really) all the time and no one has said anything to her because she’s a crazy woman who pretends not to speak English. Now THAT is too casual.</p>
<p>One of the accountants in my office wears knee length denim shorts and shower shoes (really) all the time and no one has said anything to her because she’s a crazy woman who pretends not to speak English. </p>
<p>This really has me laughing. That’s not a bad m.o.</p>