<p>I agree with you, Marite, IF there is a shopping period. I don’t think NYU has a shopping period though. Therefore, it seems like you might either contact a professor or come to the start of the class in such a situation.</p>
<p>What I was saying is that this may NOT be “accepted practice” at Stern (the professor didn’t seem to expect it as the norm) and so it is different than a situation where there is a shopping period policy or process.</p>
<p>I also think leaving early is not the same as arriving half way through it, when there is no expectation to shop around.</p>
I read the article and no, I don’t understand why this would bother anyone. I thought the professor was ridiculous. In my opinion, there is nothing at all rude about entering a class late or leaving early in the first week, regardless of the school culture (though I find it hard to believe that there was only one student at NYU who was class shopping in this way.)</p>
<p>None of the professors I know are bothered by something as insignificant as this. I’d also like to learn how large this class was. It might be disruptive in a very small seminar, but in a large lecture class, students who are shopping usually sit in the back and are not noticed if they enter and leave quietly.</p>
Not necessarily. It could just be the personal pet peeve of this particular guy. The professor had an unusual policy that prompted the initial email; apparently the student was not barred from entering any other classroom late.</p>
You’re begging the question–taking it as a given that the professor is a reasonable person with ego well under control. </p>
<p>But aside from that, even if “shopping” was not standard practice at Stern, it’s possible that the student sincerely thought it was an appropriate thing to do (obviously, some colleges agree with him), in which case, while he would have been better advised to ask some questions first, it seems more appropriate to question his perspicacity than his manners.</p>
<p>one of the additional issues clearly that likely perturbed said professor is that the student “complained” about how the professor treated him, asking him to leave. Had he simply accepted that this is the culture of this professor’s class, (no matter what the larger culture might be) the issue would have ended…</p>
<p>I am an NYU upperclassmen and there is NO SHOPPING PERIOD at NYU. None of the schools offer one. I apologize if my post made it seems as if there is one. I thought post 92 was enough ‘proof’ that so such policy exists.</p>
<p>We have an extensive advisement system. We register for classes months in advance. There is plenty of time to schedule a meeting with a Professor to discuss the class. There is also an add/drop period in the first week, where students can add and drop classes without penalty, and professors are aware that students switch classes during the first week.</p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification. It seems to work at NYU, and doubtless at many other colleges.
But I wonder about the burden on profs to set aside time to discuss with individual students the information that can be imparted to many in a single class.
Did you take a class that met only once a week? What happens if the one you registered for turned out not to be to your liking? Did you stay through the whole 2 hours?</p>
<p>Anyone who is reading this thread should take away that people have different views on what’s appropriate to do during the “shopping period” or what’s the proper decorum when attenting a college class. We would never know which camp a professor would fall on this matter. Some professors may not have any policy, but may think it’s impolite to walk in late or leave early, and would secretly dislike someone for it. I tend like to be safe than sorry. I would advise my kids to show up on time for classes and give any professor heads up if he/she couldn’t be there during regular class time.</p>
<p>Interesting note…When D1 was off campus a lot this Feb for job interviews, she went to see her econ professor about it. He told her not to worry about it as he would give her lecture notes for any class missed. She then emailed him later to ask for those notes. He sent her a very curt email to let her know it was not his practice to give out his notes, and that’s what the text book was for. She was surprised by his response after they already had a discussion. She went to see him after class to talk to him again. He was perfectly happy to give her the notes as if the email never happened. Apparently he didn’t connect the email person and my daughter as the same person. It pays to communicate and get permission first.</p>
<p>Every professor has the right to establish policies regarding how their class will be conducted. The fact that a poster on this board doesn’t think it’s rude for students to enter a class at NYU an hour late is completely irrelevant. That poster is not teaching this class-the whole “incident” would never have escalated had the student respected the fact that this particular prof doesn’t allow (very) late arrivals to his class. He wasn’t expelled from school, simply asked to leave and come back on time on another day. The fact that the student felt entitled to then write the professor to complain that the class isn’t run to the student’s satisfaction is what escalated the situation. </p>
<p>This student should probably plan to be self-employed so he can make all his own rules to suit himself. Anyone who works for a corporation or even a small business where he has superiors knows that there are going to be policies in place with which we may not agree, but which we must nevertheless follow. What’s amazing to me is that he is just now learning this?</p>
<p>Someone in my once-a-week screenwriting class left during the first class. The class runs for three hours, once a week. The person just left discreetly during the ten minute break and then sent the professor a polite email saying that the class wasn’t what she thought it would be.</p>
<p>Smart advice from oldfort, above. Obviously, there is a range of opinion on this issue and it’s probably best for a student to play it safe.</p>
<p>However, I personally find this professor to be unusually rigid and his email response was over-the-top. Looking at his credentials, I see that he is coming from industry rather than academia, and I think that largely accounts for his point of view. In my experience, most professors are far more easy-going about this sort of thing and most realize that shopping is normal and is not inherently disrespectful. I simply don’t agree with the professor’s contention that arriving late on the first night of class has any relation to this student’s future dealings with employers, or that it’s a reflection of some character flaw or lack of manners.</p>
<p>I also thought the student had every right to email his thoughts about this incident. And though the professor had every right to disagree and explain why, his email response was needlessly rude and sarcastic, and forwarding to everyone in the class was simply weird.</p>
<p>I agree with anneroku. Academia is not business; classes are not business meetings.
I asked S1 who went to a college where there was pre-registration and a drop/add period. He told me that it was accepted that the first couple of days were a shopping period. But he could not remember if people left early or came in late to the first classes. </p>
<p>Missamericanpie:</p>
<p>Thanks again. This is what I would expect students to do and profs to allow, especially in a class that met only once a week for three hours.</p>
<p>While I thought that the studen’ts e-mail was childish and inappropriate, I do agree that the prof’s e-mail was extremely harsh. If anything will get him in trouble with the administration, it will be that, especially if he actually did forward it to the class (hopefully he at least had the sense to xxx out the student’s name). </p>
<p>He could have made the same point by saying “get your act together,” rather than using profanity. But it seems he may have made it somewhat of a slogan and is enjoying his notoriety because of it, or perhaps having tenure gives him a feeling of invincibility. </p>
<p>I wonder if he in fact has tenure and feels “untouchable?”</p>
<p>Maybe not – his title is “clinical professor” which usually indicates someone active in the profession rather than a full-time professor. However, I am not familiar with NYU or MBA programs and their terminology may differ.</p>
<p>I don’t think the professor should have forwarded his email to the rest of the class. </p>
<p>I think even for schools that don’t have shopping periods, that students will visit other classes the initial week due to drop/add. I still think it is best in that scenario, if not a true shopping period, to come at the start of class. If that is not possible, it would be a courtesy to ask the professor ahead of time about observing the class and how to arrange it since the student needs to see two classes that meet at the same time and only once/week. However, during week one, the student could visit class X and during week 2, visit class Y and then decide, thus missing just one class for whichever class he/she picks.</p>
<p>I think most profs consider the first week of class a shopping period (as per S1), and many students do shop even after pre-registering.
I suppose the class in question was small enough that a student coming in late was quite noticeable. But that is not always the case. I wonder how many profs teaching larger classes would care to respond to every email asking whether it is permitted to observe their class for only part of the time?</p>
<p>I haven’t read this whole thread, but I did read the e-mail and thought it over-the-top. DS goes to a school with no shopping period per se, and early registration. However, things are not set in stone at the beginning of the semester and sometimes it is necessary to try to find a class if you are on a waiting list for another or there are other issues, such as a schedule conflict. If the two classes a person is trying to decide between meet at the same time, I can’t see how a student would be expected to decide without visiting both. Seeing how as time is of the essence, and some seminars only meet once a week, I can imagine a scenario where you would try to hit two classes meeting at the same time. Even at schools with a shopping period, sometimes you have to shop two classes meeting at the same time. If this was later in the semester, I could understand the professor’s sentiment, but there are lots of factors going on the first few days of classes and maybe students should be given some credit for juggling a lot. And I don’t think much of this professor making this e-mail exchange public.</p>
<p>As a paying customer, it would bother me if people were to walk in and out while I am trying to pay attention, may it be a lecture, movie, or any performance. It probably wouldn’t be that big of a deal if it’s just one or two people if they were quiet and discreet. But if EVERYONE thought it’s ok to come and go as they pleased, it would be very disruptive. That is the precise reason why during any performance (large audience) people are only allowed to go in and out of auditorium during intermission, except when there is an emergency.</p>
<p>It maybe within certain students’ rights to “shop,” but it is also within certain students’ rights to have an atmosphere conducive to learning. It is certainly within a professor’s rights to set the rules on how he wants to run his class.</p>