<p>Sample of one - I never heard of a shopping period or such a practice before this thread.</p>
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<p>Sample of 4 here (plus various relatives and friends). H is a college professor who was also an adjunct at various colleges prior to his current gig, I worked at a university, kids went to college - none of us has ever heard of this. The most that might happen is that students sign up for 6 courses instead of 5 with the intention of dropping one of the courses if it is not what they want.</p>
<p>H would not tolerate this. I agree with oldfort that it is distracting and disruptive.</p>
<p>Prior to being on CC, i had never heard of a shopping period, either. count me in the sample.</p>
<p>My D went to the same school as Marite’s S1, which does not have a shopping period. She sometimes signed up for extra classes and later dropped one, but I am absolutely sure she didn’t walk in and out of classes while deciding (as I recall, the extra ones were only at times that did not overlap.)</p>
<p>Actually, now that I think about it, I find the whole “shopping” terminology as part of that mindset that treats education as a commodity and the student as a customer who is always right. In my quaint, old-fashioned way, I think that’s dismaying.</p>
<p>If two courses you are considering DO overlap, it seems that a student would attend one class one day and try the other one another day as opposed to coming in and out during the class session. I believe my kid handled it that way.</p>
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I completely agree with you. It’s that mindset that heaven forbid our children have to suffer through a class that may not be perfect for them. And how dare a professor chastise them for their rudeness. After all, isn’t our child perfect and entitled to do whatever they want no matter how that may affect others? That our child has a right to complain to said professor who called them on their rudeness.</p>
<p>^^that’s what my observation is as well…if the young man simply accepted that this is how this professor manages his classes it would never have been an issue. but the student felt he needed to complain to the professor. if this professor had this reputation, perhaps the student was looking for this response?</p>
<p>Oldfort:</p>
<p>During the first week of classes, profs and students know that some disruption will take place and plan accordingly. The system is not perfect. I would think that a pre-registration program plus shopping period would make it easier for both profs and administration to plan how and where to teach their courses (S2 took a course that had had a predicted enrollment of 35 but ended up with over 300 shopping it, and 275 actually taking it).
Below is an excerpt from a blog by a Harvard prof (and Harvard College alum) who loves the shopping period. Apparently, the faculty does, too, since it shot down proposals to do away with the shopping period.
The author is Prof. Michael Mitzenmacher and his blog is called “mybiasedcoin”
Other universities have their own version of shopping period, even though they also have a pre-registration program (which Harvard does not have):</p>
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[Course</a> Selection Period | General Academic Information | Transfer Handbook 2009-2010 | Yale College](<a href=“Yale College”>Yale College)
[Brown</a> University Information, Introduction, Academics, Admissions, Financial Aid, Students, Athletics, Local Community, Alumni, Alumni, History, Campus, Students, Faculty, Address, and Tuition](<a href=“Brown University (BU) Introduction and Academics - Providence, RI”>Brown University (BU) Introduction and Academics - Providence, RI)</p>
<p>I happen to LIKE the concept of shopping period. I think at Brown there was a pre-registration but then there were two weeks of shopping period before you had to set your registration in stone. </p>
<p>I don’t agree with others about the notion of it being good for kids to suffer through classes they don’t like. That was what HS was for. In college, I think there is something to be said for choosing classes that resonate with you. Obviously some classes are required ones (for example, at Brown, there are requirements within your major), but otherwise, I think for classes you elect to take (in the case of Brown, this happens to be everything else), you should be able to get a sense if the class is a good match by observing at least one class session. I have to say that one of the beauties of the courses at Brown was that those in class wanted to be there and it permeates the class in many ways. My D liked her classes. I don’t see the benefit of suffering through classes. I see that in HS because everyone needs to take a core HS curriculum but college should be about some choice in what you study and who you study it with.</p>
<p>I agree with the issue that it is distracting to have kids come in late or leave early.</p>
<p>However, the one thing I find odd is this. When the student arrived an hour late, the prof had no idea of why, yet the prof told him to leave. If I were a prof, and someone came in an hour late (not a few minutes), I would have assumed that some serious matter had caused such a huge delay…a late running doctors appt, not being able to leave a job on-time, a serious family matter, etc. For that reason, I think it’s odd to have demanded that he leave.</p>
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<p>I agree. My husband and I are investing a lot of money in our kids’ educations. We expect them to do everything on their end to make sure that they are getting the most with our money. It has nothing to do with entitlement and everything to do with being a savvy consumer and I do think college students are consumers – but I also actually believe that about all students, including schoolchildren. Four years is not enough time to take everything a college offers and it’s a shame to waste any of that time in a class that is not a good fit. DD went to Yale with a shopping period, but I wasn’t a huge fan of that, even though it sounded so appealing initially. Winter break she was always glued to the “blue book” figuring out her plan of attack during shopping week. The problem with a shopping period is that the professors are assigning work,etc. so even though it sounds like a leisurely experience where you can stroll around sampling lectures, there is homework, etc. and it’s fairly stressful. The whole thing had a frenetic feel to it I thought. Contrast that with my son who is at a small LAC with pre-registration. Because of all the reviews professors get and because they put up the syllabus online (during registration) so students can see how many papers, books, etc. are required and because the school is small enough where you can always find someone who had that professor, it works very well. However, DD did like being able to sample a lecture, etc. and did make decisions based on the shopping experience.</p>
<p>I’ve also been a college teacher. I’d much prefer to have motivated students in my class who wanted to take it and not students who were grudgingly suffering through it. It makes a difference.</p>
<p>I’ll take it another step forward. Now I am a college counselor. I impress to parents that I do NOT want them to hire me to work with their kids unless their kids WANT to engage in the advising. That is very important to me. I speak with the student to let them “shop” with me and feel out if they want to work with me or not before committing. I don’t wish to make a kid do this with me. I find it only works well with kids who WANT the help. </p>
<p>I realize there are required courses in college. But for all courses you ELECT to take, I see many benefits from making sure there is a good fit and match. It benefits the student and it benefits the teacher as well.</p>
<p>@mom2collegekids</p>
<p>The only problem I have with that train of thought is that if something serious DID happen, wouldn’t going to class be the last thing on the student’s mind? If a doctor’s appointment ran late, I would get a doctor’s note. I mean, I’ve taken cabs before to get to a class on time. The LATEST I’ve walked in was 25 minutes late to a three hour class. If you’re more than an hour late to a three hour class, is it even worth going? You’ve missed the major concepts of the lecture, perhaps even missed a video that was shown. You would be better off visiting the professor during office hours or emailing a classmate.</p>
<p>Another thing, having been a college teacher, I much prefer a student leaving early as opposed to arriving late. The way a class is structured at the start of class, sets it up for the rest of the period. I don’t like the idea of a student missing that part. I think I would think this even more if the student was trying out the class. It also is less disruptive to have some leave the room than to have someone enter it. When they enter part way through, there is an inclination of wanting to bring them up to speed (even if you don’t literally do it). Also, it may not sound disruptive to have a kid arrive an hour late to class but remember, if it is so lenient to do that, you could have people arriving throughout the class and that becomes more disruptive than one single person doing it.</p>
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<p>Keyword: Unusual. </p>
<p>If that’s how it is set up at Harvard, then cool, everyone there knows the rules and it’s all good and no one need think twice if students come in and out during that first week. It wasn’t set up that way at NYU, apparently – so the fact that Harvard has it and everyone at Harvard thinks it’s great doesn’t mean that it’s OK for an NYU student to assume that the same process holds there. In the absence of either an informally sanctioned or formally set-up shopping period – neither of which NYU appears to have – it’s rude behavior, IMO.</p>
<p>Actually, from the two websites I quoted from, a shopping period is not unusual. S1 went to a school that has no formal shopping period and a pre-registration program (extremely frustrating, if I remember S’s experience), but still, everyone knew that the first week was shopping period (according to S1, as I mentioned up-thread). </p>
<p>Here’s another school:</p>
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<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/dartmouth-college/696210-dartmouth-brown.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/dartmouth-college/696210-dartmouth-brown.html</a></p>
<p>Cornell does not, but it looks like the students would like to have one:
<a href=“http://cornellsun.com/section/opinion/content/2009/02/09/shopping-around[/url]”>http://cornellsun.com/section/opinion/content/2009/02/09/shopping-around</a></p>
<p>But all of this is irrelevant to NYU. I don’t see what the existence of shopping periods anywhere else has to do with the fact that apparently they don’t exist at NYU.</p>
<p>We manage really well without a shopping period. We register for classes MONTHS in advance. I’m talking April registration period for Fall, and November registration for Spring. Departments hold roundtables to discuss classes, the College of Arts and Science has their own internal “review” document for classes. There hasn’t been a movement to have a shopping period.</p>
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<p>I’ve told my D more than once that it’s not necessary to love a class or professor to get a lot out of a class. A lot of comments (here and elsewhere) from students use “love” or “hate” to describe their professor. It becomes about a cult of personality rather than the content of the class. Of course no one wants to sit in a room with someone droning in a monotone for two hours, but you arent’ there for entertainment either. It’s nice to “bond” with your prof but it’s not a pre-requisite for achievement.</p>
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<p>LOL, I agree, but you might as well be talking to a brick wall.</p>