The mechanic needs to get with the times - the fact is that unless you only are interested in very low end basic cars, the car will likely have a lot of electronics. the mid-priced vehicles of today have more electronic and motorized items than the luxury cars of just a few years ago. </p>
<p>Consider (comparing to one of the many decades old cars I regularly drive) -
Power windows
Power door locks
Power side mirrors
Cruise control
Electronic stability control
Air bags
Multi-speaker relatively capable stereo system
Electronic sensors throughout the engine and other components
Electronic ignition
Computer controlled engine including fuel injection
Anti-lock brakes
Power seats
Air conditioning
Self dimming rear view mirror
Backup camera with corresponding screen for viewing (soon to be a regulated mandatory item)
etc.</p>
<p>Of course, any of those can break and none of them are failure items on the car I was referring to because it doesn’t have any of them but almost all new cars do and in that list how many would you really want to forego on a new car? Most of those items are for safety and efficiency.</p>
<p>I’m not disparaging your mechanic but mechanics need to face reality and the reality is that today’s cars, even the basic ones, have these safety and efficiency items as well as the (currently) more optional items people desire like navigation systems, TVs for the rear, etc. The features aren’t going away (although some mechanics might if they don’t keep up).</p>
<p>Yea, I know, but I think he’s been around customers who get tired of having to have their vehicles serviced because one or another electronic thing in the vehicle is broken. Sometimes more electronics is not ALWAYS better, especially if it means more expensive trips for repairs. </p>
<p>Laptops and netbooks we’ve owned recently have not lasted long 1.5 to 2.5 years before they break and are unrepairable. If comparable components are being used for cars, I’d be concerned about having to have the components replaced frequently or having them cause serious problems with the vehicle. </p>
<p>I do recognize that I have had many of the features you mention in my vehicle and NOT had problems with them. I have driven cars where these features were repaired by “mechanics” who rigged them just so they were “repaired,” but they no longer operate quite as originally designed or intended. These were not my used vehicles, and though they were offered to us, we declined them because our mechanic (whom we trust) said he can’t even figure out what was done to the vehicles and encouraged us to “just say no.”</p>
<p>Anyway, I know that whatever our next NEW vehicle is will likely have many of these new features and perhaps more will need to be set aside for maintenance and servicing. <sigh> I do like some of the new features, but am hoping that they won’t be too quirky or require TOO much servicing.</sigh></p>
<p>We had one Audi dealership 15 miles away. They had a terrible reputation for cheating their customers on service. The next closest dealership was 40 miles away. The problem that I had with them is that they would break things every couple of trips there. One time I had a fuel pump replaced, was driving back to work and the car died on the highway a mile from the dealership. I had it maintained at Foreign Motors of Boston when I lived in the Boston area. They also serviced BMW, Jaguar, and Mercedes. The service writers office was frequently a zoo. They had too many customers to serve and not enough capacity. Getting an appointment was a major headache. BTW, the building for Foreign Motors of Boston is now a Chinese grocery store. The service bay area hosts the grocery store and the showroom is now an Asian food court.</p>
<p>I’ve heard the same nightmare stories from other Audi owners. Expensive parts that break far sooner than they should.</p>
<p>Yes, it could just be this set of dealers but Audi should police their dealers as some of the other carmakers do.</p>
<p>About reliability, two articles articulating the concerns and questions going around in my head and H’s. The tech CAN cause more issues, and there are a LOT of reliability issues (and some recalls) in all vehicles these days.</p>
<p>I just bought a new-to-me car, and when I was looking I would not consider cars with built-in navigation. </p>
<p>Cars that have those tend to drive a lot of the functions of the car through the touch-screen of the nav unit, and if it breaks, it is a multi-thousand dollar repair. For the car I got, the salesman told me that they aren’t really repairable - if something goes wrong they replace the whole thing, and it runs around $3000.</p>
<p>I remember my parents having cars with crank windows, and those broke too.</p>
<p>I absolutely agree on tech causing problems and like simpler cars but there are no simpler cars today and a lot of the features are nice. The dual-sliding doors are minivans are an engineering marvel but what if they break? Climate-control systems are convenient but they have small moving parts that will eventually wear out. You can have some incredible engineering designs which give you great feeling for the road but how maintainable is the design? Is it easy to perform routine maintenance and the maintenance on things down the road? Does it have a timing chain instead of a timing belt?</p>
<p>One of the scams with built-in navigation is the amount that dealers charge you to update the maps. There are many Garmin Nuvi models in the $250-$300 area with lifetime maps.</p>
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<p>I never had problems with crank windows on one of my old Audis and I put 225K miles on it. I had a lot of problems with the electrical system though. I’d think that it would cost a lot less to fix crank-style windows compared to powered windows and you’d probably save some weight too. On my last Audi, the power window switches were in the door and they failed after a few years. The switches were $42 and it would have cost some labor to get them replaced. Imagine how much fun it is to drive with windows that you can’t control. The switches failed because dirt got into the switch mechanism. There were lights in the switches too so that you could see them in the dark - barely. Lots of fancy engineering but is it reliable and is it maintainable?</p>
<p>We do like the convenience of dual sliding doors and have only had one break once (or was it twice) in the 14 years we have owned. We have had the hatchback of the Sienna break twice, but again the repair was about $100 or maybe a bit more over the 14 years. The repair was fairly inexpensive and I believe it’s significantly cheaper than replacing something like electronics where you have to replace the entire unit.</p>
<p>We live in HI, so it’s pretty easy to figure out where you’re going or have the Smart Phone or GPS that is separate navigate you if you don’t know where you’re going on our small island. In LA or an area with more driving, I can see built-in GPS as more attractive but would balk at the potential repair costs, especially as we’ve had MANY stand-alone GPS units break on us over the past few years, sadly. Most have only lasted us a year or sometimes two (thanks, Costco for taking them back). I really DON’T want too many expensive electronics that will break and need replacement or pricey repairs.</p>
<p>We have only had ONE power window break–a 1992 BMW in 2008 or so, which seems pretty good to us in all the years, with all the cars we’ve had. My friend who got a newer Sienna with the automatic sliding door had A LOT more problems and took it back to swap for a different vehicle entirely because of all the glitches, after several failed repair attempts by the dealer.</p>
<p>All me a dinosaur, but I prefer the electronics to mostly be on the phone, which can be replaced significantly more easily and inexpensively than a huge unit in the car (which first has to be pinpointed by the mechanic).</p>
<p>Yes, have driven a family member’s vehicle where you could NOT open the windows or turn on the A/C. After a while, both worked. I thought it was very odd and declined the kind offer of accepting the vehicle, as our mechanic said getting everything to work the way it should would cost WAY too much.</p>
I haven’t had one last long enough to make it worth paying for lifetime maps, so I don’t bother with them any more.</p>
<p>I traded in a 2003 Sienna with 175,000 miles on in. I liked the dual side doors but we didn’t get the power ones, they have too many problems.</p>
<p>I only got $1200 for it from the dealer, but it was pretty tired. And the AC just recently failed, that probably would have been an expensive repair.</p>
<p>I had a power window fail on my 13-year-old Maxima, I didn’t bother getting it fixed. I loved that car, but it ate brakes. It’s always something.</p>
Well, sure. Like I said, none of the items I listed ever broke in the car I frequently drive but that’s because it doesn’t have them. However, if I was buying a new car, would I skip most of those features even if it was possible (and it’s not really possible)? No, I wouldn’t. </p>
<p>Having more items is more to go wrong but that doesn’t mean you don’t want the item. </p>
<p>I have crank windows in the car I was referring to. I certainly haven’t ever had to replace a window motor in it but if I were to buy a brand I’d want power windows even though they decrease the reliability and increase the cost.</p>
<p>I have had multiple power window failures in other cars I’ve owned. I fix them myself but the motor/mechanism usually isn’t cheap and it can be a hassle to replace.</p>
<p>So what I’m really saying is that what the mechanic stated wasn’t wrong but rather fairly irrelevant. It’s not a point of the reliability of all the components since virtually any new car you buy will have most of those components and if you buy a higher end car it’ll have even more since that’s much of what distinguishes a higher end (more expensive) car.</p>
<p>On the plus side, engines of today are generally much more reliable and maintenance free compared to the engines of the past. The stickler here is when the engine is an interference engine and has a timing belt that has to be replaced at a fixed mileage at a high cost. I hate that design feature but there’s a good chance whatever new car I buy next will have one since they’re ubiquitous.</p>
<p>Yea, I guess we’ll be happy with the “hand me down” car and wait to see when something major and expensive breaks in any of the three vehicles, which is likely when we’ll be looking to purchase a newer vehicle. </p>
<p>It does seem like these features are “cool,” and I have test driven them and they seem pretty neat, though they do take some getting used to. With the very little we drive, it may be quite a while before we need to get a newer vehicle.</p>
<p>We aren’t concerned about lifetime traffic or lifetime maps on GPS devices either, since ours have malfunctioned before it has ever been an issue as well, sadly. So glad Costco is fine with refunding us so we can purchase a new one. ;)</p>
<p>I’ve had one Garmin Nuvi that I bought four or five years ago and haven’t had any problems with it. I bought a beanbag mount for it and that might help to explain the longevity.</p>
<p>Actually we are shocked at the short lifetimes of the Magellans and Garmins we’ve owned. Mostly we use them when we travel and hand carry them and store them the rest of the time. Don’t use them much the rest of the time. Don’t understand why they fail. S uses his more often and also has them fail. :(.</p>
<p>I recently replaced my old car and one car I test drove was the Infinity EX 37. It is a crossover and was a very nice car to drive. I ended up with something else, but I did like the features of that vehicle.</p>
<p>The won’t charge and won’t turn on or won’t adjust to where they are located. Sometimes, they just turn themselves off and will not turn again (alarming when you’re in strange city). With the iPhone we now have backup, when the GPS fail, but irritating!</p>
<p>There are many nice vehicles that have loads of great features. May have to not plan on keeping cars so long if the electronics have limited lifetimes. We tend to keep our vehicles about 10-14+ years. Electronics don’t seem to last that long for us, sadly. May have to increase maintenance and repair fund if we will keep vehicles, expecting electronics may fail sooner OR replace sooner, as many do and let new owner deal with failures of electronics.</p>
<p>Note that the ATS, like many other cars, has an optional touch screen interface for controls like the radio, HVAC, etc. (called CUE for Cadillacs). Before buying the car, or deciding whether to get one with the touch screen, see if you like the idea of using a touch screen while driving. Many do not, since it does not allow for operating the controls by feel. If you do find a touch screen acceptable, consider how large the virtual buttons are (too small and it is too easy to use the wrong control, especially while driving) and whether you have to go through layers of menus to get to something you use frequently.</p>
<p>Another control annoyance is the use of touch-buttons instead of regular press-buttons for controls, since touch-buttons also cannot be operated by feel without activating other touch-buttons.</p>
<p>Do you leave the GPS devices on the dash or window when they are not in use? I don’t leave mine in the sunlight when not in use (the beanbag mount is great for this). I think that temperatures in a car in direct sunlight can damage GPS devices.</p>
<p>No, most of the time, I keep the GPS in my cool house, turned off. We mainly use the GPS for travel, maybe a total of 45 days a year or less. Don’t understand why they fail but others tell me they have theirs fail too. Just bought a new Magellan and will take the failing Garmins back for refund.</p>