<p>texaspg - That is very surprising to me. I’m not a history buff by any means but I feel I’m surrounded by references to it. Do people who have no knowledge of history wonder why they’re off on MLK, Columbus, Presidents’ Day or July 4th? Surely they are at least reminded of history several days a year.</p>
<p>Those are just dates and holidays. Lots of people don’t even get a holiday for MLK, Columbus or President’s day. I know that at least two of them exist only when I don’t get my mail.</p>
<p>Knowing about history and what kids are expected memorize for AP US history are two separate things.</p>
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<p>I can tell if someone is not very strong in math by the way they respond when I tell them my major. (I’m majoring in mathematics, and people will often respond by saying something like “I was never any good at math!”)</p>
<p>So you’re saying you can tell if someone is not very strong in math because they tell you they are not good at math? Makes sense.</p>
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<p>I agree with this and am a living example of someone who was mediocre at Algebra and never took Calculus, but had a successful and lucrative career.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I believe that anything that exists is worth knowing, and the more knowledge on any and every subject one acquires in a lifetime is worthwhile. If you can keep going in math, I’m sure there is some benefit to it and would encourage everyone who can manage it to do so because it opens the door to more career options.</p>
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<p>Actually this is only part of the truth.</p>
<p>Other countries don’t completely cover Algebra 1 by the end of 8th grade. Topics like parabolas, hyperbolas, quadratic equations are covered in 9th grade.</p>
<p>But what American students miss a lot is geometry. Geometry is totally ignored or taught without proof in American middle schools. Geometry is generally required starting with 7th grade in other countries.</p>
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<p>It doesn’t make sense to me actually. For instance, I’m not very good at English, but I don’t go around bragging about that.</p>
<p>Some countries do not have 13 years (k -12) system. They start kids at 7 in first grade and they have only 10 grades. What you teach is more important than when you start them. You can definitely teach much more challenging material to a 7 y o, and kindergarten should not be even considered as an academic year, no academics. No reading requirements or any kind of testing is done before kids enter first grade at 7. All this testing is just waste of resources. My own D. tested very low before kindergarten and we still put her ahead, yes she went before she turned 5, The girl ended up never having a single B in her entire k thru college graduation experience and currently is one of the youngest in Med. School.<br>
In the 1 - 10 system (vs k - 12) system, they start talking about algebra concepts in first grade. Why not? They start algebra in 5th grade, chem. in 5th grade, physics in 6th grade. They gradually move to having algebra, geometry and trig all at the same time (different days of the week) and having physcis material taught at the higher level of difficulty based on the level of math learned so far. There are also separate classed for history, biology, botany, geography, not all mushed together. No wonder, that American kids have such a huge problem entering college in engineering major. It is NOT an individual kid problem kids are ALL smart, they are not stupid. American kids are not prepared at all by k -12 education. Some immigrants organize their own school to bring their kids’ level in math and science up, others (from some African countries, believe it or not) thinking about sending their kids back home to get pre-college education. American k -12 is at miserably low level, even in the best schools as all schools have about the same program. It is NOT possible to teach physics in one year, period, it is the most ridiculous assumption of them all. The best teacher is the one who recognizes that fact and teach only one part (the most difficult) - mechanics. None of it is possible without great background in math. Math is nothing more but the universal language of science. Until this is recognized, k -12 will continue to be a drag, boring and not challenging experience, that most kids feel very negative about. It does not have to be this way at all.</p>
<p>I think not every kid is ready for Algebra in 8th grade and no amount of laws will change that fact. My daughter struggles horribly with math. She struggled to get a C+ in Algebra in 9th grade and if she had to take it in 8th grade she would have probably failed. How would that have helped anyone? </p>
<p>People seem to think earlier and earlier requirements and more and more homework makes kids smarter. I think it is harmful. What is the rush? Why does it matter if the average student learns algebra in 8th or 9th grade? If a student excels at math and is interested in it, then of course they should take it earlier. No matter what, everyone can’t excel at STEM. People should get a good all around education, and then be free to dig deeper in the areas where they are interested/excel. And I don’t think a good, all around education has to include calculus in high school, so I don’t think there’s any rush to have algebra in 8th grade.</p>
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<p>If kids can learn more earlier, with less effort, then the systems that we have in place today are wasteful. In general, I think that it is possible to be prepared for algebra in 8th grade but our system of preparation doesn’t work well for that. I don’t really see a way of fixing this either.</p>
<p>You can explain an algebra concept to a 5 y o kid who cannot read. It all depends on instructor, do not blame it on kids, they are not stupid.</p>
<p>“Other countries don’t completely cover Algebra 1 by the end of 8th grade. Topics like parabolas, hyperbolas, quadratic equations are covered in 9th grade.”</p>
<p>They dont break it down by algebra I, geometry, Algebra II and precalc. Some of it is taught every year until a big board exam in 10th grade. I was speaking to someone recently who used to be a teacher in South Africa 20-30 years ago and moved here. In south Africa this person taught algebra 1, 2, and trigonometry in same year but had to pick one to teach here.</p>
<p>No, they don’t break down math by subjects. They teach algebra, geometry, 3-D geometry, trigonometry in parallel. Trigonometry is usually taught in HS and it’s spread over grades 9, 10, 11. They teach calculus in grades 11 and 12.</p>
<p>"They teach calculus in grades 11 and 12. "</p>
<p>This is where it gets interesting. People may be able to ignore Math altogether, science altogether, social sciences altogether when they get to 11th. Only required class starting in 11th is a language and everything is determined by intended major in college.</p>
<p>Yes, they what they did during my time before I came to the US. Students specialized in major subjects starting with grade 10. Humunaties concentrated students had only 1 hour math, 1 hour biology, 1 hour chem/physics and 6-9 hour literature/philosophy per week. A math-physics concentrated students had 6-9 hours in math, chem/physics per week. They probably have more balance now but still have specialization in HS.</p>
<p>The approach that we’ve taken of constant repetition/drilling of basic concepts that a child has obviously grasped already and trying to keep everyone at the same level is killing kids’ math potential. I homeschooled in kindergarten. My kid had obviously grasped addition and subtraction of numbers of any size. We moved on to multiplication and division. It was not difficult for her. We need to let kids who are ready to move ahead do so, and not force those who are not ready.</p>
<p>California abandons algebra requirement for eight graders or more likely they realize many kids will never jump through this hoop. Once again one size fits all mentality.</p>
<p>California schools have found that [Students</a> failing algebra rarely recover - SFGate](<a href=“http://www.sfgate.com/education/article/Students-failing-algebra-rarely-recover-4082741.php]Students”>http://www.sfgate.com/education/article/Students-failing-algebra-rarely-recover-4082741.php) .</p>
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<p>Lots of people will never be smart enough to learn algebra. Very few employers of high school graduates (or for that matter college graduates) expect them to be able to do things such as solve quadratic equations or factor polynomials. Therefore I don’t think we should stamp everyone who cannot learn algebra a high school dropout.</p>
<p>Many college students have not even mastered fractions, as described in [Fractions</a> My Algebra Students Can’t Do](<a href=“http://www.brianrude.com/fractionsquiz2.htm]Fractions”>http://www.brianrude.com/fractionsquiz2.htm) . If you think a high school diploma should certify some level of mathematical knowledge, maybe this level should be arithmetic.</p>
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<p>That’s just process stupidity.</p>
<p>If someone fails algebra, figure out why they failed, fix the problem and then proceed.</p>
<p>Son tutored university math for many years - the biggest problem he ran into were students making algebra errors. The students didn’t have problems understanding calculus. Students could have trig or log issues too.</p>
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<p>Vast majority - being smart enough isn’t the problem. Having math presented well and reinforced at the pace that the student can absorb it is.</p>
<p>Maybe the problem isn’t the algebra, but rather how they were mathematically prepared up to this point.</p>