Calling out to all PROMYS or SUMaC Alumni, Staff, or Anyone else who can help

Pre-College Topics Summer Programs
1

<p>I know that there are several threads which compare these two programs and I have read them all, but in deciding my plans for the summer there are a few points that I would like to know more about. Thanks in advance to any insights!</p>

<p>1) Research Opportunities</p>

<p>Both programs let first-years participate in an “exploration project”. How much does this resemble to actual research, and which one (if any) is more likely to turn into a presentable piece of work by the end of the summer that I can put into my college apps? I know that students who return to PROMYS have the chance to pursue a research topic, but this will be my first summer there, and I’m a rising senior.</p>

<p>2) Faculty/Staff and Recommendations</p>

<p>I am under the impression that SUMaC is taught by purely Stanford faculty/graduates, while PROMYS has counselors coming from different universities across the US. Is this true? Also, will professors or members of faculty of SUMaC or PROMYS write strong recommendations, if asked, for pursuits after the program? On its website, SUMaC says that the staff keeps records of each student’s performance for future use. Is the same true for PROMYS?</p>

<p>3) Topics</p>

<p>It seems that PROMYS is rooted in number theory while SUMaC II explores different topics related to topology. At SUMaC, are choices given as to what specific topics you want to pursue, or does everyone do the same things (just like PROMYS first-year)? To those who also studied topology during their years at SUMaC, how interesting do you find it (because it’s a complete stranger to me)?</p>

<p>Finally, to the select few who have participated/staffed in both programs, what direct comparisons can you make between the two? For example, how tightly-knit are the communities built? How strict is the schedule? </p>

<p>I have no doubt that I will enjoy and be challenged by either program. That being said, when faced with two choices I obviously want the slightly better one~ So if anyone can provide any insight into any of my questions, or even provide a perspective that I have not thought of, thank you so much!!</p>

2

<p>At PROMYS, there is little chance that any first-year research projects will be able to be entered in a Siemens/Intel type of contest. They’re all topics that have been explored before. That being said, the research projects are still ‘presentable’… as long as you and your group take the time make it that way. My group’s project was pretty legit, but other groups’ weren’t as much. (I can show you if you want, PM me)</p>

<p>PROMYS counselors come from all different universities. They are all undergrads, although their graduation years may vary (some may be first-year undergrads, others may be 4th). Faculty of PROMYS can write recommendations - in particular, should you go, it would be wise to ask Professor Stevens for a recommendation (I did!). I think there’s a page about it in the yearbook somewhere. I’m not sure what exactly he writes in the recommendation, but I’ve heard that it’s great.</p>

3

<p>I can answer some of these about SUMaC.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>SUMaC students don’t do original research; it’s exploratory, which sounds similar to what hawaii4lyfe said about PROMYS. You won’t produce a paper or anything that would go into your college applications, because that isn’t the point of the project. The guiding principle is to learn a bunch of cool mathematics, then present some of it (not all, due to time constraints) to your classmates.</p></li>
<li><p>Basically, same thing hawaii4lyfe said about recommendations. Rick writes recs for loads of SUMaC students every year, and I’ve heard they’re very good. Most, usually all, of the SUMaC staff have some sort of Stanford affiliation (undergrad, grad, alum, or faculty). And yes, Rick keeps a file for each student, mostly for use in writing recommendations later.</p></li>
<li><p>SUMaC has two different classes, Program I and Program II. You’re placed into a class when you get accepted to the program, although you can indicate a preference on the application. Program I is abstract algebra and group theory, with a dose of number theory as well, and Program II is topology with a very quick introduction to group theory. Each class studies the same material, but there is some more choice in the research projects, especially in Program II.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>If you’re accepted to SUMaC, I assume you’ll get some sort of information packet that contains a lot of this.</p>

4

<p>hawaii4lyfe answered pretty much everything about PROMYS!</p>

<p>You did ask a question about whether or not PROMYS kept records of student performance. YES. Very much so.
At the end of the first three weeks of PROMYS, a midterm is administered, graded, and return. The fun doesn’t end there! Over the weekend, students finish a midterm writeup, which (should) consist of a comprehensive solution to every problem on the midterm. These writeups are kept by PROMYS as a pretty in-depth record of the student’s work at the camp. Furthermore, each student is assigned to a counselor (four students to a counselor, generally one of the four is a returning student). The counselor will write a relatively detailed description of the student’s progress/work/etc. each week, which are also kept on file. The counselor will also keep a chart of each problem set, noting which problems were solved, which were somewhat solved, and which were not solved. Finally, midterm and final exam scores are also kept on file.</p>

<p>All of these records are used by Professor Stevens to write the recommendation, which should probably contain some melange of the academic (performance at PROMYS, quality/rigor of proofs) and the personal (how well the student got along with his/her peers, etc).</p>

5

<p>I did not know about the counselors keeping track of students’ progress on individual problem sets! Oops, that is probably not good… there are many problem sets I didn’t get too far on.</p>

6

<p>Hi! I just got accepted to Program 2 of SUMAC. This will be my first year attending. I have three questions:

  1. So even if I am in program 2, the research I do there will not be enough to write a Siemens or Intell project? It is more of an “exploration”?
  2. How strict is SUMAC on the “no laptop” policy? I know last year PROMYS had a no-laptop policy, but almost half the kids (and all the second years) brought one. The counselors were generally very chill about this. Is this the case with SUMAC? Or will my laptop be confiscated?
  3. How strict is SUMAC on the “asleep by 11” rule? At PROMYS last year, it was pretty much “sleep whenever your eyes close”, and most students stayed up well past 3am doing problem sets/hanging out</p>
7

<p>And anyway, to the original poster, I am speaking with 2 yars of PROMYS experience (and wish i could go for a 3rd, but my parents think its time for a change)
Pros of PROMYS:
-Fun fun fun fun FUN fun fun

  • you learn lots of math, lots and lots and lots of math
  • curfew is whenever you deem it to be. Although you cannot leave the building past 11 (building rules, not PROMYS), you can pretty much do anything you want in warren towers until the sun rises. And you can be SURE to find dozens of people hanging out and working on problem sets whenever you go downstairs
    -Counselors are very nice/chill</p>

<p>Cons (where your research question comes into play):
-As a first year, you will have no chance to submit a Seimens paper (at least a winning one). This is a fact, because all the proposed questions are previously solved and well known.
-As a returning student, you have to realize this: PROMYS is NOT catered towards those who enter just to win Seimens. Of course, as a returning student you will be doing unkown research, but if you get stuck, your counselor/mentor (who might know the answer) will not tell you what to do. Instead, they will happily watch you struggle with a problem they may very well know how to do, all so you can learn how to deal with math.</p>

8

<p>russianruler:</p>

<p>1) No, you won’t complete a science fair project in your four weeks at SUMaC. (Remember, you have a full slate of classwork to do in addition to your research project!) I could see SUMaC research potentially being a jumping-off point for doing something for a science fair, but take that with a grain of salt, because I personally know basically nothing about these competitions, their expectations, or the style of research people do for them. It is also worth noting here that it’s darn hard to do any significant original mathematical research even as an undergrad, much more so as a high school student.</p>

<p>2) As I’ve written in another thread, very strict. If you bring a laptop, it’ll probably be stored in a counselor’s room for the duration of camp. I don’t remember anyone ever actually bringing one. We do have shared computers you can use, though, so it’s not like you’ll be totally without a computer.</p>

<p>3) The rule is actually lights out by 11; we encourage you to sleep, but we can’t force you to. You can’t be out wandering the halls after this, and out of respect for your roommates and neighbors who want to sleep, you have to be quiet. And yes, it’s pretty strict. We also make you turn your problem sets in before that, because otherwise people stay up late in their rooms doing problem sets, and then they fall asleep in class the next day.</p>

<p>I feel like I’m making SUMaC sound really strict, but that’s really not how I feel about it. There are a few rules that we have to enforce pretty strictly, but the overall atmosphere is really very laid-back.</p>

9

<p>Sorry if this doesn’t really fit into the exact topic of this thread, but I wanted to ask you as someone with PROMYS experience: how hard exactly is PROMYS? I am trying to apply and have been working through the problems but I found them very difficult… I have figured quite a few out but like I said, they have taken me forever. :confused:
On the midterm and final exam, will I be expected to do these same types of problems under time constraints? Of course I don’t want to assume that I’ll get in in the slightest, but I’m just wondering if it’s even worth applying and potentially getting in if I’m just going to completely fail and flunk out. I would be prepared to work hard if I went, but I’m just worried, especially since I am a rising senior who has never qualified for ARML or anything like that that I am unable to “think” in the correct way. Will they teach me from scratch? And are you allowed to choose to be put in the non-advanced class? What is the difference between the advanced and non-advanced class? And also, will I have to do presentations on my own? Sorry for all the questions and anxiety! D’:</p>

10

<p>adach1, if you really like mathematics…then apply to PROMYS. No question. Yes, of course for the midterm and final you will be expected to do ~20 problems in about 2 hours. The daily problem sets are, again, ~20 problems, but you have ALL day (and night) to do them.
And even if you cannot get them, you will still learn SO much math, and there will be dozens of other kids in your situation. You get to work in groups, which will undoubtedly help you out. And your counselors are not going to judge you if you cant solve all or even most of the problems … they’re just going to help you.
So just to recap, if you’re really into mathematics, dont even think twice about applying to PROMYS.</p>

<p>As a quick reply to your questions, yes they will teach you from scratch, you have the option of taking whatever class you want (besides the number theory one), and no, presentations are in a group. But trust me, dont worry about all of this. If you love mathematics, you will love PROMYS.</p>

11

<p>Thank you so much for the reply!! It was really helpful and comforting to hear about the groupwork and counselors. I really am interested in math and your reply has encouraged me to at least apply… Thanks again.</p>

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<p>@adach1/or to any prospective PROMYS attendees:</p>

<p>An alternate perspective - I am definitely not passionate about math, I’m not talented in math, math is not my best subject by far. I still enjoyed PROMYS and felt like I got a lot out of the program. The rigor and depth of the coursework is definitely something that everyone grows from, regardless of one’s love for math.</p>