Caltech [$90k+] vs Columbia [$90k+] vs UCSD [full ride] CS/AI

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Was accepted to Caltech, Columbia SEAS, and UCSD for AI. I’m full pay so the first two would be 90k+/yr, while I earned a full ride to UCSD, making the cost 0 including housing/fees for all 4 years. However, I am fortunate that my parents are willing to cover the costs for the other schools as well, as they are encouraging me to attend Caltech at the moment. Please help me decide!

I have a current inclination to pursue AI research, whether in the industry (ex: Google Deepmind, OpenAI) or in academia (grad school, PhD, to potentially becoming a university professor –– I really enjoy teaching). Here’s what I like/dislike about each school. Please let me know if there’s anything else to be aware of for these three schools, but right now I’m leaning most towards committing to Caltech.

Caltech

  • :white_check_mark: Great for research & undergraduate research opportunities.
  • :white_check_mark: CS major is more theoretical, which is pretty satisfying because I’m a math lover at heart. Since I’m currently working on a lot of applicational stuff, I don’t think it’ll be too hard to get industry jobs if I self-prep.
  • :white_check_mark: Seems to most adherent to the philosophy of engineering for social good rather than financial interest
  • :white_check_mark: Can switch majors / pick up interesting minors such as Comp & Neural Systems (CNS), Applied & Comp Math (ACM), etc. that give me a better background. Also good humanities options.
  • :white_check_mark: Small class sizes, easy to get engaged & meet excellent faculty.
  • :white_check_mark: House system – long term connections with classmates, probably great for fighting feelings of loneliness, etc.
  • :white_check_mark: Seems to be more collaborative – less competition against each other and more working with each other.
  • :white_check_mark: Great grad school placements while also decent in going into industry.
  • :game_die: Rigorous academics: might mean I have less time to pursue actual work / applicational experience, less time for hobbies, etc. However, necessary for preparing for research.
  • :game_die: Mid dining, suburban location.
  • :cross_mark: Nonexistent art program :frowning: – I know they have cross-registration with ArtCenter…however general access to the arts is low.
  • :cross_mark: Student body doesn’t really seem very active – I know clubs / student orgs have pretty low engagement & not sure about how active students are in political & civil participation.

Columbia

  • :white_check_mark: New York City, lol. While weather might be sketchy, seems like a really great place for young people to be. I also love public transit, and while NYC’s isn’t great, it’s the best on this list and one of the most convenient ones in the country.
  • :white_check_mark: Decently small class sizes but also large undergraduate student body
  • :white_check_mark: Balance in a liberal arts / humanities education (best for pursuing a minor / double major for anything non-STEM of the three schools, particularly visual arts, history, etc.)
  • :white_check_mark: From what I’ve heard, has a great work hard, play hard culture.
  • :white_check_mark: Decent access to research opportunities with faculty.
  • :white_check_mark: I feel like Columbia is the biggest on change making & civil engagement of the three schools. I also like the “engineering for humanity” principle, just not sure how much of it applies.
  • :game_die: Seems to have the least resources for engineering / cs / AI of the three. When I visited the engineering facilities seem to have been confined to just one building lol.
  • :game_die: Less focus on academia, from what I’ve heard everyone seems to want to go into industry or consulting, not sure though.
  • :game_die: Might be rather behind on current AI developments. Particularly, while UCSD has the specific AI degree and Caltech has undergraduate research opportunities, I don’t know how much Columbia’s CS / applied math majors really cover AI concepts, either – the course list seems pretty generic.
  • :cross_mark: I’m a permanent resident and there is a nontrivial chance that just by being on campus I’m at risk of having my legal status here jeopardized.

UCSD

  • :white_check_mark: $0 → less financial burden / reliance on parents.
  • :white_check_mark: Probably will let me have the best mental health.
  • :white_check_mark: AI major allows me to focus on the specifics for the field, scholarship also permits to switch majors if needed.
  • :white_check_mark: Lots of resources, seems to be leading out of the three schools for current AI research
  • :white_check_mark: AP credits allow me to graduate early (no point since CoA=0) or pursue a double major / minors in other subjects I’m interested in (math, physics, linguistics, history, etc.).
  • :white_check_mark: Seems to have a lot of undergrad CS majors interested in going down the startup / entrepreneurship route (California mindset ig) → easy access to that direction if research is not for me. Similarly, great job placements in Bay Area industries for general software engineering, etc.
  • :white_check_mark: Vibes factors – great dining, beach, etc.
  • :game_die: Placement in Eleanor Roosevelt allows me to explore more humanities subjects, may be a little frustrating however for engineering
  • :game_die: I don’t know about the ease of research opportunities due to the large student body, however, I can probably secure positions if needed. Worried about state / federal funding.
  • :game_die: Large student body: I prefer smaller class settings, but being able to meet a lot of people is pretty cool so I’m sure to find people I’ll feel a good fit with.
  • :cross_mark: Peers might be the least driven of the three schools. (In high school, I’ve had a lot of terrible experiences working with people not pulling their weight / not taking anything seriously)
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What scholarship did you receive? Some of the big scholarships at UCSD include research.

@aunt_bea do you have feedback on Caltech?

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Hmmmm. Ever changing industry. $360k at a school that folks say doesn’t focus on undergrad (cal tech) or free.

Is your last name Gates or Bezos ?

I’m sure your parents can put that money in a CD and help you buy a house later ?

In my mind, easy call for UCSD.

Great environment - as you say best for mental health. Research you can do anywhere - just ask.

Easy call !!

Good luck.

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Jacobs scholars, doesn’t have any research benefits as far as I can tell

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I feel like Caltech’s undergrad experience is like half grad school anyways with the research and harder classes

my parents are pretty heavy on prestige so I’m the only one actually arguing for UCSD, kind of hard to win that argument unless come up with a reason other than cost

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I think it does. If that is your deal breaker, I would find out before turning down what sounds like a golden opportunity.

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You can do research at any school. You’ll be solicited for it. All students will. So I wouldn’t be concerned it’s not packaged in a program.

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My main reaction is that Caltech is a fit school. It is small and intense. There is no easy way to work very hard and learn an enormous amount. Caltech, and MIT where I went, leave out the “easy” part. Studying at MIT has been compared to drinking water out of a fire hose, and the analogy fits Caltech just as well.

My reaction after studying four years at one of these two schools is that you have to want to do it, and the desire to work that hard needs to come from inside yourself.

All three of the schools that you are considering are very good. You can indeed do research at any of these schools.

You do not have to attend a big name school just because you got in. Figure out which is the right fit for you. Figure out what you want to do.

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They don’t have to - but if they end up at one of the three in the title thread, they will be.

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Can you start by eliminating one out of the three?

I think there are good reasons to cross off Columbia:

  1. While it’s an excellent university, IMHO it isn’t as strong as either of the other two, for your specific interests.
  2. You value Columbia’s culture of civic engagement, but this is changing fast, with their capitulation to government pressure, and leadership turnover.
  3. Unfortunately I think your fear of being targeted here as a permanent resident, more so than at the CA schools, is well-founded.
  4. If you were to turn down the full ride for a full-pay school, your parents prefer to pay for Caltech.

So, is there really a reason to keep Columbia in play?

As for UCSD vs. Caltech… certainly the Caltech undergraduate experience is unique. OTOH, UCSD is top-notch for your interests, and you acknowledge that the setting, the “vibes,” the work-life balance, the artistic outlets, etc. could be more conducive to good mental health.

It seems as if the biggest concern pushing you away from UCSD is concern about the peer group. It’s funny, because a lot of people worry about UCSD in the other direction, fearing that it’s “socially dead” and full of nerds who do nothing but study. Of course, neither extreme is true. You would absolutely find plenty of peers who matched your drive, at UCSD.

Of course, the importance of spending vs. saving over $300K is up to you and your parents, and it sounds as if they’re quite willing to spend the money for Caltech.

Have you visited both schools? This seems like something you need to suss out in person, and perhaps make contact with both students and faculty in your areas of interest, to get a clearer idea of what each experience would be like. Just make sure you aren’t falling for an “If they’re offering it for free, it must not be that good” fallacy. UCSD certainly is that good. Both can connect you with amazing opportunities. Very different experiences though. And while your parents may want to write the checks and buy the bumper sticker, you’re the one who has to live and breathe the experience you choose.

Congrats and good luck with whatever you decide!

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Thanks! You have reaffirmed my thoughts about Columbia. I will try to visit UCSD if possible.

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I would try to reach out to other Jacobs Scholars and learn how much (or how little) it helped them make connections in industry. Priority registration is a nice perk as well.

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At a large public like UCSD, priority registration is huge. It means the difference between scrounging for available classes/sections, and skimming the cream of the best course offerings.

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It’s not as if UCSD is a backwater school. It’s better know for AI/ML than either Caltech or Columbia, and it’s free. :exploding_head:

This is a real thing in high school, but not in engineering or CS. Those people don’t last.

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Okay, I hate to quibble but I literally just discussed this topic with my friend (a Stanford engineering professor who taught at UCSD for a decade) and she told me that she only took maybe 2 undergrads a year in her lab – generally only the ones who were a) acing her classes and b) asking her persistently for opportunities. She was definitely not recruiting them. She had grad students and post docs, teaching and committee requirements, grants to write and manage, etc. She stressed that at most large research universities, there just aren’t going to be opportunities for every undergrad who wants them – the numbers don’t add up.

I think that perhaps in this case (a student who won the Jacobs Scholarship and has gotten into Caltech and Columbia to boot) it’s reasonable to assume that research opportunities would be relatively easy to source, even in a very large school like UCSD. But it probably won’t be quite as easy as it would be at Caltech.

(and I think looking at the research people are doing ahead of time, like maybe right now, and looking at who’s in their labs and how actively they are publishing and stuff would be a productive use of time before you commit.)

My husband and sister (and ergo a bunch of our friends) went to Caltech. It’s a special place, unique in the US I believe. It will either work for you or it won’t. My husband thrived there. My sister flunked out, not once but twice (and she’d also had acceptances at Chicago and Cornell, and has expressed that in hindsight one of those might have been a better choice.) Another of their friends was on the 7-10-year plan but he eventually graduated and now he’s a tenured theoretical physics professor so I guess it all worked out. :slight_smile:

Seems very important to visit both California schools if at all possible – and ideally meet faculty that you’re interested in working with and assessing what opportunities might be available. Agree that Columbia is a red herring in this scenario. You can always go live in New York later. Now feels like an exceptionally risky time to enroll at that particular institution, especially if you have other equally appealing and affordable options.

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I’m sure @goldbug is correct about the competition for undergrad research spots at UCSD. I don’t see how anecdotes about a few of your kids’ friends negate firsthand reports from profs at the specific school under discussion.

At UCSD, AI research opportunities attract not only CS majors, but also undergrads in the large, top-notch, and computation-heavy Cognitive Science department as well. There any many driven students who want research opportunities, and this is a hot field of research.

At the same time, a student who stands out enough to get a rare full ride should not be worried about being able to stand out enough to get research opportunities. It will just take initiative.

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Well, I don’t want to keep repeating myself, but here goes:

Our son attended Caltech. The facilities have been upgraded recently and there are lots of bell and whistles, so your tour will show all of that.

I don’t know where you got your ideas but our son’s experience was “different” than what you’ve presented.

Cal tech is a research institution which means that your professors are conducting a LOT of research and the undergraduate classes are taught by graduate assistants, from everywhere, many who haven’t had ANY prior teaching experience. For the professors, and Grad students, it’s “publish or perish”. It is a research institution so you won’t be getting the typical university education. You need to “fit” the school, not the other way around.

Your professors will lecture your classes of 200 freshmen together, but the GA’s will create your tests and grade them.

You will be ordering a lot of Uber Eats and Door Dash as you continue to study and work very independently in your room, or in the libraries because everyone is busy doing their own research and is under the stress of the calendar.

Collaboration? Uh, on your own research? Not really.

House system, yes. Combating feelings of loneliness, no. You will be doing a lot of independent studying. The houses aren’t exactly “Democratic”. I’ll leave it at that.

Lake Avenue eateries may not be the best of food choices, but it’s there.

If you will be okay with being alone a LOT as you progress through the courses, studies, projects and research at an insane pace, in a very independent manner, then maybe, Caltech will suit your needs. You will hit the ground running by yourself because every National and international award winner is there and is a very strong “graduate level” student. A number of them are working on improving their awareness of social conventions.

Our son transferred out because it wasn’t the right fit for him. He was on a number of sports and academic teams in high school and thrives on collaboration and group discussions/opinions. He was a huge volunteer and missed not having the opportunity to do that while at Caltech. (They -boosters/alumni volunteer for you.) He is insanely bright and needed a place that would allow him to venture out towards unexpected opportunities.

Edited to add: Mental health professionals are available there and are kept busy.

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Please focus your posts on the three schools this student is considering, not anecdotes from experience at other institutions. Also, we suggest moving on to other topics if you are repeating yourself; it is not necessary to get in the last word to every post expressing a different perspective from your own. Thank you for your understanding.

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USCD. A school isn’t going to “make” you, you are. So save your parents the burden (your word not mine; they want to retire one day), maintain your mental health, take advantage of all the school has to offer, and go kick some you-know-what. :slight_smile:

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when I think of UCSD what comes to mind immediately is top notch science. And for free? I can’t imagine turning that down. The negative stereotype you hear about it is that it’s not super fun (UC Socially Dead), but that negative doesn’t apply when you are comparing it to Cal Tech.
Your fears about being at Columbia with the current political climate- I hope they are overblown but I’m afraid they aren’t. that fear seems sadly legit. anyway even without that you’d be choosing it for the Ivy League name, even though for your interests it prob doesn’t come close to your other choices.

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