Caltech or Yale for Astrophysics

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For better community input, please provide the below details about your college offers:

Net price per year at each college, after applying scholarships and financial aid grants.

Roughly the same and not a big driving factor

Maximum parent contribution per year.

Major/division admitted to at each college, if applicable to the college. Also, any special programs like honors programs or combined degree programs (e.g. BA/BS->MD).

Astrophysics/Physics at both

If you applied to regular fall term start, specify if you were admitted to start at a different campus, in study abroad, in an online/distance or extension program, or other than in the fall term.

Nope

Desired major and post graduation goals (including if pre-med, pre-law, etc.).

Desired Major in astrophysics/physics, current goal is to get a degree in astrophysics for astroparticle or high-energy research.

If not a frosh admit finishing high school, indicate status (e.g. sophomore level transfer, junior level transfer, frosh after gap year(s)).

N/A

International or domestic student (and state of residency if domestic).

Domestic–Northern Midwest

Student preferences beyond the above (including weather, class sizes, campus culture, college demographics, fraternities/sororities, distance from home, etc.).

I want to go to a college where I can get the rigorous coursework to position me greatly for a leader in the field and ultimately grad school. I would to get involved in undergraduate research on the cutting edge of the field and be able to form bonds with professors and faculty. Despite my focus on academics, I’d also like to attend a college where I can truly enjoy my time there and have some level of sociability. I also don’t want to end up burning out and disliking my field or feeling as though I’m taking the classes “because I have to”. Ultimately, I want to be able to attend a renowned institution with incredible rigor, form connections within the field, and enjoy my college experience all the same.

Preliminary assessment of each college based on the above.

I have visited both campuses, and they were both great. Yale felt less STEM-Centric and the students seemed generally happy, whereas Caltech was a research haven and had unparalleled resources and the social scene was better than I expected, but many of the students I talked to focused more about it preparing them for their future better than anywhere else instead of actucally enjoying their time there from what I gathered.

Why did you apply to each college you are considering?

They are both tremendous institutions and I honestly applied to many of them in the hopes that I would get accepted to at least one of them. Caltech is unparalleled in the field, but Yale is well known more diversely. Both have research and a good department, albeit maybe at different levels.

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If the academics are paramount, Caltech would be the choice. If you want a more balanced college experience, that also includes a strong program in your area of interest, then Yale. Just check Yale’s upper level coursework in your area to make sure it will align with your interests (I don’t know enough to comment about Yale’s astrophysics program myself).

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Both are great schools, but make sure you understand Caltech well. It’s very much a “fit” school.

Tagging @aunt_bea to get her insights.

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Based on wrote you wrote - Yale.

Yes, Cal Tech grads end up at places like JPL - but it’s much smaller, much more focused, and want have enough diversity - if this is a goal - ’”Id also like to attend a college where I can truly enjoy my time there and have some level of sociability.”

Per Yale’s first destination report, 75% of astrophysics grads go to grad school and 12.5% work and 12.5% are in the military. I suspect this is few grads (8 total) as they don’t say - but here is where they attend:

  1. University of Cambridge

  2. Northwestern University

  3. Princeton University

  4. KU Leuven

  5. Johns Hopkins University

  6. University of Washington

For Physics, 24% are in grad school, 24% are working - and 12% are still seeking. Others are in freelance, military, self employed, interns, and entrepreneurs. The average salary is $134K but the median is $78K.

These are the top colleges of further study:

  1. Imperial College London

  2. University of California, Santa Barbara

  3. University of California, Berkeley

  4. Stanford University

  5. University of Oxford

  6. Princeton University

The school (not majors) has a 91% knowledge rate - so they know the outcomes of most.

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Given what you described, you sound like a great candidate to do Yale for undergrad, and then a PhD at a suitable program.

If you do well at Yale, you will be well-positioned for top PhD programs.

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Agree. It is a very FIT school. It’s a research institution; so if you think you’ll get a regular University experience there, that’s not going to happen.

It is a very small campus.
Yes JPL recruits from there, as do the biggies, but you need to be a very independent thinker.
(For the record, my husband was recruited from Stanford for JPL. He interviewed, and was offered a generous package, but decided that he didn’t want to live in LA county.)

You will spend a lot of time independently. At a school like Caltech, you will hit the ground running. Our son didn’t have a problem with the workload because everyone is challenged there including every national science winner on that campus. He did have a problem with how small the campus environment is, as a research institution.

Some students, (as well as professors) may need help with their communication skills and social interactions.
In our son’s experience the professors lectured, but the tests and labs were created by graduate assistants. Some had never had any teaching experience and their youth and immaturity, during questionable exams were punitive during grading.
Our son transferred out. Turns out he wanted a real university experience with available professors who weren’t on the clock to publish or perish.
My suggestion to you is to visit both campuses. You’ll get the vibe. Caltech is gorgeous and beautiful and has amazing labs with the latest and greatest equipment. It’s a very specific campus for a very specific type of individual.
Our eldest daughter got into Yale. Yale is a different environment but it is a larger university. I don’t know much about it because we were visiting but they had canceled the tour that we were supposed to go on. And they didn’t give us a reason. They gave us a map and said “go to it”.

Needless to say, our daughter did not attend but instead chose to go to the University of Buffalo. Loved it! It was where she needed to be and it was free for us. (She double majored in electrical engineering and computer science.)
Visit your schools because you have to live there for 4 years.

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Note that both schools have significant general education requirements, but they differ significantly, so in your evaluation of the academics, be sure to consider the general education requirements as well as the physics and astrophysics major requirements and electives.

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Caltech, unless you really work the system at Yale

Caltech or Yale

Yale!!!

Yale, unless it’s humanities gen eds you’re worried about burning you out.

…Yale

To get the “incredible rigor” you seek, you might want to take advantage of Yale’s flexibility (e.g. prerequisites being waivable) to design an unusually rigorous course of study. Can you share a bit about about your physics, math, and computing background?

Keep in mind that astroparticle physics is much more closely related to theoretical physics topics (particle physics, symmetries, field theories) than the sort of astrophysics you would see at the undergrad level (star and galaxy formation, stellar structure, gas dynamics, etc). High energy physics is of course its own field of physics and also very math heavy (and/or data heavy, for experimental HEP).

Apparently taking physics 4100 (second year classical mechanics) is possible as a freshman: Reddit - Please wait for verification

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I’ve taken as much math and physics as I can at my HS ( AP calc AB and BC. AP Physics C Mech) and have done some basic unsergrad level stuff at a summer program. At Caltech, the rigor is there regardless, I just want to ensure the coursework at Yale will be rigorous and in-depth enough to prepare me well for a grad school application.

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You would not run out of coursework and rigor at many, many colleges. You’ll be fine at Yale if that’s your choice.

Good luck.

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There is an intensity at CalTech that I’m sure you are aware of. When we visited many moons ago, students talked about class not starting until 10 AM because most students were up working until 4 AM. That may have been a myth, but it was indicative of the standard MO. My son chose not to apply. His comment was “I could rise to the intensity here, but I know it wouldn’t be healthy for me“

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Okay then, I would recommend taking physics 2600/2610 your freshman year, math 1200 and 2250 first semester, and 2460 (and maybe 2550) your second semester. Maybe also try to fit in ast 2100 or 2200 and/or a programming course (astr 2250 or physics 3780 or cpsc 1230) although all of the above is certainly too much

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Have you looked through the Yale course catalog? Have you looked at the professors?

I think you have isolated the important decision factors. IMO you have earned the right to choose the school where you feel you can be happiest over the next four years.

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Yes, it will be. That is why Yale does very well in PhD feeder studies, including in Physics. The classes and labs for majors are more than rigorous enough for the top PhD programs.

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I don’t know if you like Yale or not. But from my little samples (Our HS is a pipeline to Y), I vote Caltech for all the hard core science. Yale might have world class research but also the culture is deadly favoring for the wealthy nepotism. I knew some hard core science kids got lost. Practically Yale has not much STEM recruiting opportunities matching with their name brand and I think the school is also aware of it. Instead they tried to recruit the top STEM student to fill the loopholes. All the STEM kids I knew had a brilliant career or research opportunities outside of biomedical on their own effort not through the school. The school sounds good due to the brilliant kids they admitted. Caltech on the hand really provide a world class STEM education and research opportunities. If you want your kids to work for the top finance firms, I vote for Yale and otherwise my vote goes to Caltech in STEM fields without any doubt.

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This is inaccurate both for Yale AND for the Astrophysics field in general. You cannot extrapolate from ONE HS even if it is a “pipeline” school.

The sciences in general are almost nepotism proof. No researcher of note is going to risk his or career by hiring a wealthy friend’s kid.

I don’t disagree with the overall takeaway that Caltech is a more “pure sciences” play, but that has nothing to do with wealth, nepotism, or anything nefarious going on at Yale. Yale began as an institution to educate the religious clergy of the Colonies. It has morphed over the centuries, but was NEVER a tech institute, nor does it claim to be today.

And I don’t know what deadly favoring even means.

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If you were 100% hardcore into astrophysics, didn’t care about having a social life/enjoying college, and wanted to take on Caltech’s “drinking from a firehose” reputation… then Caltech might make sense.

But while Yale might not have Caltech’s hardcore STEM rep, it is still Yale, and its curriculum is flexible to the point that you should be able to design a plan of study that will allow you to dive as deeply into Astro as you’d like, while also having fun with some of the gen ed/breadth electives. And you can enjoy the luxury of a social life at Yale: parties, apizza, games, etc. – whatever floats your boat. Their residential colleges foster a sense of community.

Finally, at least half of all undergrads change their major at some point. If that does happen to you, Yale is likely the better place to be given its far greater curricular breadth. IE, it would likely be easier to pivot.

So, piling on: Yale

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