~95k for all colleges
Major: Engineering (maybe mechanical? maybe aerospace? maybe environmental? not sure what type of Engineering I want to do yet)
I live in Socal. I don’t want to join a sorority. I don’t think I am “nerdy” to the level of Caltech (I don’t enjoy studying THAT much)
So far, my preliminary rankings are: Caltech-Columbia (tied), Duke, UPenn
You may want to explore the engineering options and cross-curricular programs available.
It is confusing to rank CalTech highest-tied but also admit it may not be for you.
Duke may have the right mix of undergrad engineering opportunities for you. They are doing more innovative undergrad engineering development than Columbia and UPenn.
Have you visited all of the campuses? They are fairly different.
To paraphrase a knowledgable acquaintance, undergrad at Caltech is about as close as you can get to skipping college and going straight to grad school. For a few kids, that is great. I think for a lot of kids, that would be a big mistake. And I feel like you might be more the latter sort of kid, given your self-description.
Among your other three, obviously some people have a strong preference for region/setting. Outside of that, I would make sure you understand how Columbia applies its Core Curriculum to engineering students:
Duke and Penn use variations on what are often called distributional requirements:
So it is up to you, but one possible decision tree would be whether you want a grad-like experience or not (if yes, Caltech, if not, move on), then whether you want a core curriculum (if yes, Columbia, if not, move on), then whether you prefer the sort of Northeast Corridor urban setting of Penn or North Carolina Research Triangle setting of Duke.
But that’s just one way to look at it, of course.
All great options. Assuming they are equally affordable, go with personal fit.
If you don’t feel Caltech is the right school for you, then eliminate it from consideration.
Congrats on your amazing and diverse acceptances. When I look at this list, I see schools that are very different. Have you visited all the campuses - Duke will have a Southern vibe and basketball rules (games are a blast), Columbia is really about a campus in the city with students spreading out on weekends to explore and minimal sports culture (women’s bball gets the most crowds currently) and I think of students being a bit more independent, Penn is a bit of a mix to me with students around campus more vs Columbia and from the kids I know it is more work hard and play hard (obviously not everyone) - where do you see yourself and your personality thriving? The academics are there at all of your choices - where do you want to live for the next 4 years and how do you view your college experience - you say no greek life - so where are you meeting your friends? Are you hoping to meet in classes, do you play an intermural sport, clubs or ? If school spirit rates high on your list then it goes Duke, Penn and then Columbia. If urban living, great food options and a bit of independence then Columbia, Penn with Duke coming in #3. I’d love to hear your thoughts on your visits or if those are upcoming within the next few weeks.
I did not attend Caltech, although I have friends and coworkers that did. I did attend MIT, and I think that the experience is similar.
Attending MIT has been compared to drinking water from a fire hose. Caltech is very similar. Either of these two schools is a LOT of work.The work does not let up until you either drop out or graduate (and very few students drop out). IMHO the desire to work that hard needs to come from inside the student themselves. Do not do this to please a parent. Do not do this because you think that you should. Do this only if you want to do it. Do this if you are driven to prove to yourself that you can do it, and you are driven enough to keep at it for a full four years.
I still recall doing homework on a Saturday afternoon. One time in graduate school I woke up, had breakfast, spent six hours doing one problem from a problem set, and then went to dinner with my girlfriend. Let’s suppose that you similarly spend six hours one sunny Saturday doing one homework problem (out of the 20 problems that you have to cover 4 or 5 classes, most of which are not as difficult). Let’s suppose that you succeed in solving the problem. Will you be thrilled that you managed to solve the problem, or will you feel like you just wasted a Saturday afternoon. If you would be thrilled, then Caltech might be a good fit for you (or might not).
Otherwise you have four very good acceptances. However…
…you can get a very good and ABET accredited education in any engineering field for a lot less than $95,000 per year. After graduating you will find yourself working alongside other engineers who graduated from a very wide range of universities and no one will care where you attended university. Most coworkers will not even know where you attended university. I hope that you will not need to take on any debt at all to attend any of these four very good universities.
And otherwise, try to figure out which school would be a good fit for you. They are all very good.
You stated that you don’t enjoy studying that much. The school is a research institution
My son attended Caltech. He loves to study! (He has of history of having an eidetic memory and can recall large pieces of information.). He transferred out because he thrives on collaboration.
You will spend a lot of time studying, independently and ordering from Uber eats and DoorDash, because you will be studying and you won’t have time for anything else other than your research.
Once you understand that it’s a research institution, and not a typical university experience, then maybe you’ll put it on the side.
I agree with @DadTwoGirls, you will spend a lot of time, independently, studying a problem set and figuring it out for a full day. And that’s just one problem set.
You need to ask yourself what kind of engineer do you want to be? For example, a practicing engineer or an academic or a company founder or venture capitalist. Caltech is a good fit for all but the very first type, where the undergrad education is more theory than practical: example, a Purdue engineer will outpace a Caltech engineer for the first few months if they start together in a job right out of college. The Caltech undergrad curriculum is generally regarded as ‘difficult’ but you’re surrounded by a lot of kids who love, love, love STEM. Are you that type? Then, consider also that due to its very small size, Caltech students are very supportive to each other in doing p-sets, etc., and it’s definitely not cutthroat as it might be at a school much larger (because you know each other so well). Of course, the small size may feel constraining on the social side. Finally, the Honor Code is very unique: most exams are take-home, and they are either “infinite time” or else they are “spend no more than an hour on this” and you have to self-police. So ask yourself whether you are the type to appreciate what Caltech has to offer: you will have a very undergrad difference experience compared to UPenn, Duke or Columbia.
I think the opportunities from Caltech would be great, and that its engineering program is fantastic, which is why I’ve ranked it super high. Also, I’ve talked to some students who do really love it and say that they do have a good social life in addition to academics due to the close-knit culture and the house system.
Also, I had always thought Columbia’s engineering had an edge on Duke’s. Columbia’s location in NYC is also a plus.
I will be visiting all campuses except Duke
Apparently, 50/50 people from Caltech go into industry/academia. However, their curriculum and environment are definitely skewed towards academia.
I am not exactly sure what I like. I love Duke’s school spirit and basketball culture, but I also have heard that Duke is big into frats/sororities which I don’t plan on going in. I don’t really like Penn’s culture as much since I’ve heard about the Wharton elitism, and I want to stay in SEAS. I’ve heard Columbia can be a little too individualistic due to the NYC, but I’m not too sure. I love Duke’s campus though.
I am not sure I would be able to survive the workload, but students I’ve talked to have all said it’s manageable and they get decent sleep.
I want to be a practical engineer, and I know that Caltech is decently theoretical. However, I am not sure if Columbia/Duke/UPenn will provide better practical engineering / better engineering education.
I do love STEM, especially math and physics. I do think I would thrive in Caltech’s collaborative and not cutthroat culture.
You do not need to be in a frat or sorority to enjoy Duke and the sororities don’t even have houses so they are more like social organizations if you feel like it. There is an organization for everyone, lots of free movies and cultural events too. Having been an RA in the dorms at Duke while I was a grad student, I saw a large array of personalities (introverts, extroverts, etc.). While the town of Durham itself has a nice, laid-back southern vibe that is with a large dash of academia and progressive collaboration. There are fewer students from the west coast but plenty from all over the northeast, mid-atlantic. On campus it doesn’t have a distinctively southern vibe.
Any decent engineering major will include both theory and design practice, although different schools and departments will have different proportions and emphases.
Greater emphasis on design practice may be more likely at less research intensive schools like CSUs.
Have you been accepted to any other universities with ABET-accredited engineering programs?
I have been accepted to Purdue and Georgia Tech, but I got accepted into Computer Science for those and I don’t really want to do Computer Science. I want to go to Caltech/Columbia/Duke/UPenn.
And just to clarify, I didn’t mean to suggest that everyone from Caltech goes into academia, just as not every STEM PhD goes into academia. I was more just suggesting the experience of being a student there is more like the experience of being a PhD student than is normal for US colleges, even extremely good ones.
I’d be a little careful about what you hear on that subject. For various reasons, certain people put a lot of emphasis on Wharton, but the undergraduates in other schools are not necessarily spending a lot of time, certainly not disproportionate time, with Wharton students. Engineering students in particular tend to spend a lot of time with other engineering students, as it is just a time-intensive program plus they also tend to do a lot of related clubs and activities and such.
And really, I don’t think engineering kids are all that different at different schools like this, particularly not the ones who stick with engineering (a lot of people do switch out). Obviously they are all individuals, but there are what you might call common interests and cultural norms that tend to be shared across engineering programs.
That is part of why I suggest you pay careful attention to how the REST of the curriculum works at any given college. Because I think in terms of your overall college experience, that might be more of a variable than your experience specifically in engineering (aside from at Caltech, which is plausibly different even in engineering).
But to come full circle with this observation, because of the way Penn does things, even your non-engineering courses at Penn are not likely going to be dominated by Wharton kids, much more likely you will meet a lot of CAS kids. And I would not be too worried about the culture/vibe among Penn CAS kids either.
Caltech is very cutthroat, it’s just the school doing the cutting instead of students.