<p>Yes. If the report about laying in the road amidst traffic and calling 911 is true, sounds like he should have been committed at least temporarily and therefore had his firearms eligibility revoked. Saintfan, maybe you’re right about the media misusing definitions.</p>
<p>It sounds like both times he was ‘detained’ there were procedural or consent or cause reasons whey they couldn’t hold him longer. I don’t know what those are or the proper terminology. Some of it in these case seems to hinge on active, imminent threat to self or others. It is just hard to understand how we ended up in this place where everyone’s hands seem to be tied even as people who are known to have serious mental health issues kind of melt down before our eyes.</p>
<p>Simply put, what happened is that mental illness somehow became a disability and community based care became a right. That means, for better or worse, we don’t really lock up crazy people in institutions anymore. Not for long, anyway.</p>
<p>Reddit found that John Meis had an open wedding registry. They started a fundraiser and so far $23000 has been raised for him in thanks for his heroic actions.</p>
<p>Glad that John Meis is being remembered for his heroism. He really helped minimize the violence that could otherwise have resulted. Thanks for sharing that.</p>
<p>Yes, the pendulum has swung very far toward individual rights of mentally ill people, that they are free to do out in the community unless there is a showing of eminent harm to themselves and/or others. This is regardless of if they call in or someone else tries to call in about them. Our mental health system in the US is in shambles and not much that I read about is being done to improve things, sadly. It is woefully underfunded and fragmented. Our state has clubhouses where mentally ill and caregivers they can meet in the community, as well as some outpatient visits, but am not sure what more exists for them. Prevention and treatment is surely much less heartache but getting funding for it is a major sticking point.</p>
<p>Ive been in a mental hospital twice.
Both times voluntary( frankly the first time was out of exhaustion, but my H wouldnt have gone for me getting a hotel room to sleep
One hospital at least attempted therapy, but the first one didnt even do that as it was superbowl weekend and apparently that came first.
Its pretty tragic that when you make a heroic effort to attempr treatment, there are hoops and more hoops and nothing at the end.</p>
<p>Treatment basically means drugs which will either stop working or eventually go unswallowed. The wishful thinking idea that a psychopathic killer would get better with treatment may be part of the problem, here. </p>
<p>I dont see an indication that ybarra is a psychopath.
Does a psychopath express regret and shame?</p>
<p>Sure, many times. Many psychopaths know exactly what is the right things to say and do. Also, much of what he are hearing about Ybarra is coming from his public defender. But, I have no idea about him. I was speaking generally.</p>
<p>Mental health treatment is geared for the long haul. Hospitalizations are generally for taking a person in crisis and stabilizing their mental health. Often getting someone the right meds is done in the hospital and then fine tuning these meds is done in outpatient settings or possibly group homes. And yes, being admitted to a MH facility on the weekend is not optimal.</p>
<p>What is missing in mental health care is good solid continuity of care. There is just not enough of a network to help everyone as well as they should be helped.</p>
<p>In addition mental health care provided by insurance can be really,really bad and only cover short stints over many years. ACA tried to change this for the better.</p>
<p>According to some articles this guy was delusional. The proper meds should straighten him out but he will now be locked up for life. With any luck for him it will be a mental health facility.</p>
<p>Maybe we should really stop having this stuff all over the news. I wonder if many of those on the edge get ramped up upon hearing of these rampages. Do their inner voices change. I wonder.</p>
<p>When I worked in mental health, we frequently found the sociopaths could have regret, but it was regret that they were caught. Shame sometimes related to feeling shame that they didn’t plan well enough and were caught. These were more reactions to the consequences of their actions than having a conscious about doing something wrong. </p>
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<p>Absolutely they do. They just don’t mean it.</p>
<p>By definition, a sociopath has no conscience. He abstains from illegal behaviors because he does not wish to suffer the consequences, or it doesn’t serve his purposes. It’s not because he believes it’s “wrong.”</p>
<p>Psychopaths don’t feel guilty.
And I doubt they would express remorse immediately after their actions, or allow their attorney to do so.
However, I admit I am not up on all the psycho or sociopaths.
I do remember Ted Bundy quite vividly however. 
He was cold as ice.</p>
<p>I also attended EDCC, and while I didnt know Ybarra, I do have an acquaintance there who suffered from PTSD and I could see him losing his mind like that. In retrospect, I think he even was trying to ask me for help, but I missed it.</p>
<p>Im going a bit off topic, but its my thread, and I think it would help us all if we had a better idea of how to recognize those who could benefit from some human contact.
Life is not getting less stressful, and we need more awareness of those people working without a safety net.</p>
<p>For years, I had extreme seasonal depression,( not unusual in our latitude) combined with genetic mental illness, ( my father was bipolar and died from depression, my mother was also ill) but got much worse in the spring paradoxically. I still was depressed, but I had more energy to do something about it.</p>
<p>I did’t feel I ever had a good physical workup even though I had an extreme imbalance of progesterone and estrogen, which was evident with my PMS, and had to have weekly progesterone injections when I was pregnant.
I didn’t get to the point where I obtained weapons( nor did I ever think about it) , but I was very stressed from years of little sleep and became practically psychotic because of it.( my youngest daughter was high needs, and didn’t sleep, my husband was an alcoholic & abusive) I use this term loosely, as I was obsessively suicidal and was furious that I wasn’t getting help that made any difference. I was suicidal because I wanted to stop hurting, not because I wanted to die.</p>
<p>I tried to get myself help, as in seeking a therapist,( and even though we had " good" insurance, our mental health coverage really sucked- it still does actually) even calling CPS myself, and attended support groups intended for stressed parents, when I spanked my toddler on her diapered bum, but it is VERY hard to get meaningful help, especially if you don’t have much of a support system. (& you’d think the support groups would offer child care or at least help you find affordable care) :-/</p>
<p>Psychiatrists only want to medicate, which makes you feel completely numb. My illness coincided with the advent of a new class of anti - depressants, SSRIs & SNRIs, which coincided with snarky newspaper articles about people taking Prozac because they wanted to have an easy life. Who doesnt? 
I took the meds, but hated the wrapped in cotton feeling, so after I read the articles, I would feel guilty I was taking the " easy" way out, and stop taking them.
Which prompted rebound effect and it is worse than it was in the first place.</p>
<p>I think we/I make several mistakes when faced with mentally ill.
We don’t have time to help them and don’t know where resources are.
<a href=“Suicide Prevention Resources | SAMHSA”>http://www.samhsa.gov/prevention/suicide.aspx</a>
<a href=“http://www.nami.org”>http://www.nami.org</a>
We assume that they have others in their lives who are helping them
If they are revealing their pain to you, a casual acquaintance, its likely that they don’t have anyone who is looking out for them and helping them stay in touch with reality.
It probably is taking all their strength to reach out and try and get help, it is much easier to keep pushing all the pain down inside until it can’t be hidden anymore.</p>
<p>Even when you are recovering, it takes a long time and you are fragile. Its very hard when others don’t see anything wrong ( no broken leg or chemotherapy) and think you should just " buck up".</p>
<p>I actually had people say that to me- all the time.
It didnt work so well. @@</p>
<p>I don’t know if Ybarra is worth redemption.
But I know it wont be long before there is another tragedy.
Maybe if we were more aware, there wouldn’t have to be.</p>
<p>In this case he appeared to know that it was wrong and fight against it - for all the horror of what he has done he seemed to have been making an effort on his own behalf over the years. One of the things that came up in the Isla Vista case is that the perp didn’t think he had an internal problem so was resistant to treatment. Here, the shooter sought out treatment on several fronts - both mental health and alcohol abuse and actually told people what he was afraid he would do. </p>
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<p>Sociopaths express various human emotions they don’t feel if it suits their purposes. </p>
<p>Thanks for sharing EK - I’m sorry that it’s been so hard for you. I agree that whatever Ybarra’s diagnosis is, he is no Ted Bundy or even Elliot Rogers. It seems like he could have been helped before it came to this (and hence, sparing the life of his victim) and going forward paying some attention to his history could help to improve the systems if there is the public will. </p>
<p>EK, thanks for providing your useful perspective and sharing. Am hoping things are improved for you now. In our state, I don’t see much support for increased services of our mentally ill, though it is clear that our system is terribly fragmented and inadequate to address the needs of many mentally ill in our state–homeless and housed populations.</p>
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<p>It seems that in this case that he was not illegally allowed to own a gun based on his involuntary commitment to a mental health institution. So not sure if this a law issue or enforcement issue.</p>
<p>The broader ownership issues are a hodgepodge.</p>
<p>For example, it is illegal and a felony in California to own a nunchuck or a tonfa.</p>
<p>(nunchucks - two sticks attached by a rope - seen in martial arts movies)
(tonfa - a stick with another stick coming out a 90 degree angle - think of it as an “L”)</p>