Ya, they do in SE FL.
^ Depends on the area. There are some SSDS high schools, but a number are K-8 as well.
I have a feeling that you probably have met day school graduates before, whether or not you are aware of it. Many of my friends went to day schools of some denomination or the other before moving on to secular colleges (and sometimes high schools - one of my friends even went to a Jewish K-8, and a Catholic high school). Most of them have jobs that have nothing to do with Judaism. I’m not sure why their colleagues or neighbors or the parents of their kids’ friends would have any reason to know where they went to school K-12, unless it happened to come up in conversation. Frankly, with the exception of my close friends, I’m not entirely sure which people in my circle went to Jewish schools (or at least spent some time in them) and which didn’t, and these are people I know through a religious Jewish organization.
But this is wandering from the topic.
It may be that you have met people who went to Jewish Day school, but you just don’t talk about it. Do you know where your co-workers went to grade school, or even high school? In Baltimore it is common to ask even a new acquaintance where he went to school, and usually you mean high school, because that’s a big deal there. Other places I’ve lived and in work environments, it’s never brought up.
In NYC or other cities with bigger Jewish populations, the Jewish day schools might have a higher academic reputation, but the ones here are not considered the best academic choice. There are a few Catholic and Christian high schools among the academic elite schools, but not the two Jewish high schools.
It’s not only in Baltimore.
I’ve been regularly asked where I went to school in NYC and other places I’ve lived/visited by fellow New Yorkers or locals in other areas as a shorthand to figure out whether one was a local of the area and then, a local of a particular neighborhood or not.
Since one could have attended high schools which accept students from a wide variety of neighborhoods/towns/regions, the “school” concerned could be referring to middle or elementary school as well.
It could also come up randomly when comparing notes on childhoods. For instance, I found out about my friend’s experience with Orthodox Jewish Day school when we were discussing what kinds of troublesome hijinks we got into in K-12 which prompted his discussion of his horrid experience at the fundamentalist Orthodox Jewish Day School and events leading up to his eventual expulsion in 6th grade and eventually evolution away from his family’s fundamentalist religious upbringing to becoming a non-religious person.
Never ever heard the word “fundamentalist” used in reference to Judaism (reform, conservative, conservadox, orthodox, reconstructionist, etc). Maybe some militant Zionists use it somewhere, but its it largely a Christian concept. Another story??
I know kids that went to Schechter, mostly for elementary/middle school. A lot of kids in this area attend Jewish pre-schools and kindergartens at the local temples or at the JCC, not sure if those are counted as Jewish day schools. However, I only know one family whose kids went to Jewish day school for high school. I find it hard to believe that 28% of college-bound Jewish students went to day schools for high school. In NYC, there have been reports of the very limited secular education offered by Yeshiva schools, so many of those students are not going to top colleges.
That being said, while labeling some schools as the most anti-semitic is problematic, there is a lot of anti-Jewish sentiment. Some of it is directed toward Israeli policies, which can carry over to Jewish people in general, and some has nothing to do with Israel. I have not heard my friend’s kids feeling out of place at their colleges.
I use “fundamentalist” sometimes to characterize right-wing ultra-orthodox branches of Judaism, whose approach to religion is not so far off that of Christian (Protestant) fundamentalists. It’s not really accurate. There are branches of Judaism that strongly believe in the literal truth of the Bible – at least the part of it we acknowledge – but no Jewish sect I know of that fails to respect the long tradition of biblical exegesis and interpretation within Judaism, something I think is not paralleled in Christian fundamentalism. I’m not using it as a compliment. I don’t think the people I am tarring with that brush would use it to describe themselves.
I also sometimes talk about the Jewish “Taliban.” That’s not a compliment, either.
(In case it wasn’t clear, I am a relatively liberal Jew. Many people like me romanticize Hasids and other ultra-orthodox groups. I don’t.)
^ ^
Actually, “fundamentalist” was the very adjective he used to describe his family’s Orthodox Judaism and the Jewish Day school he attended until 6th grade.
And considering that school was so extreme in its disciplinary regimen to the point of allowing teachers/staff to regularly hit and even physically assault students as a disciplinary measure in the late '80s/early '90s, I don’t blame him.
Worse, his parents went along with it for a while as they believed in such disciplinary measures were needed given his “obstinacy to learn” and inclination to ask difficult questions on many topics including those pertaining to religious matters.
Especially considering this disciplinary regimen is usually stereotypically associated with old-school disciplinary practices in some Catholic and fundamentalist Protestant schools.
And while some older neighbors in my old NYC neighborhood who attended my Catholic elementary school in the 50’s and '60s did experience severe corporal punishment* from teachers/nuns as part of their disciplinary regimen when they were there, that was long gone by the time I started there in the '80s.
- Hands slapped hard by rulers in class for minor offenses, paddling with a hard wooden paddle in the principal's office for more serious ones.
OK, let’s clarify. Yeshivas – the ultra-religious schools that ultra-Orthodox attend – are not generally what are being referenced when people talk about Jewish Day School, which is for generally secular families. A Jewish Day School follows a dual curriculum—whatever the secular state curriculum mandates AND a Jewish history/Hebrew language curriculum. Someone upthread mentioned that Yeshiva students don’t get a good secular education, and that is generally correct for the boys. This is NOT what we are referring to when we talk about Jewish Day School.
You are mixing apples and oranges. Zionism–belief in a Jewish homeland–has nothing to do with religiosity. In fact, ultra-Orthodox are not Zionists.
Nobody is talking about getting slapped with rulers in this day and age. Still having trouble believing that any Yeshivite, or Lubavitch or Chasid or Ultra-Orthodox uses the term "fundamental. Its just not a term used by them.
^^You are correct, @jym626 . That is just JHS talking. I’ve interacted with her before on these issues, and that’s just her take. And while I am no fan of ultra-Orthodox, the label JHS uses is meant to inflame, I believe.
Nu student here. I’m not jewish. I am a Christian and I definitely sense the antisemitism. And because of how close Judaism is to Christianity, some of the anti semitism is very offensive. As a Christian, I fully support Israel and the state of Israel. That feels isolating at times on a campus that is big on “feminism” and “equality,” but usually it ends up being intolerance for anyone who isn’t ultra left wing.
While that was true a generation (and more) ago, it’s clearly no longer true. For a long time, many/most ultra-orthodox Jews questioned the validity of Zionism, believing that re-establishing a Jewish state in Palestine could only happen in a messianic era. It was the height of hubris for humans alone to undertake that project themselves.
That attitude eroded as a generation that had grown up after Israel’s founding (and that had grown up with full details of the Holocaust) came into leadership. Ultra-orthodox communities in Israel (and tragically, occupied Palestinian areas) grew, prospered, and acquired real political power thanks to their ability to make or break coalition governments. Their affiliates in the diaspora became much more closely tied to the State of Israel. Very few, if any, maintain their historical opposition to Zionism. The largest Hasidic sect reconciled itself to Zionism by deciding that it was a messianic era.
Jewish “fundamentalism” is associated with Zionism http://web.stanford.edu/group/wais/Religion/religion_jewishfundamentalism.htm
I am Jewish. Both my s’s went to a Jewish day school until HS. DH has some very ultra-Orthodox/Yeshivite relatives who study for years at their Yeshiva. I consider them Ultra-Orthodox, but no one in DH’s large, extended family, nor anyone else that I have run across, uses the word “fundamentalist” in reference to the ultra extreme folks. I believe JHS wasn’t the first to use that term here, so am not seeing his comments as inflammatory (and FWIW, JHS is a “he”).
@brantly - I’m Jewish, in my late 50’s, and was born and raised in one of the most Jewish neighborhoods in NYC – the Lower East Side of Manhattan (right across the street from Guss’s Pickles, if you can picture where Bubbie lived in movie “Crossing Delancey.” For the record, Bubbie’s apartment, was just alongside the East Broadway – not the Delancey Street Subway Station, but “Crossing East Broadway” doesn’t sound quite as catchy. But I digress). I left NY in my mid-30s, but kept my apartment (you never give up a cheap apt. in NYC!). My family lived there until the early 2000s, which is when I sold my apartment.
I was raised secularly – culturally Jewish with a strong Jewish identity – but totally non-practicing (I was in high school the first time I attended a seder) in an area filled with both Orthodox and secular Jews. There was little interaction among the groups beyond pleasantries in the shops and in the elevator (which, I might add now are “Shabbos elevators” that automatically stop on each of the 20 floors from Fri. eve. until Sat. eve, thus allowing the religious people to no longer be relegated to living on the bottom 3 or 4 floors of the buildings. Again, I digress).
The secular Jews I knew (myself included) all went to public school, the Orthodox Jews went to Yeshivas (we called them “Yeshiva bochers;” I shudder to think what they called us!). I never knew anyone who attended a Jewish Day School until I moved out to CA – and ironically sent my daughter to a Reform one until 3rd grade. While the name “Solomon Schechter” rings a bell, he could have just as easily been a neighbor (perhaps a local big macher), not a network of schools that ever came into my radar.
Here’s an interesting article about the neighborhood I grew up in and how it has evolved:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/22/realestate/my-lower-east-side.html
And, yes, antisemitism, often conflated with anti-Zionism, is still lamentably alive and well and certainly not limited to – but surely present on – college campuses.
And while I don’t generally use the term “Fundamentalist” to describe the ultra-orthodox Jews, I have no problem with its use, based on the definition(s) provided by Wikipedia:
Fundamentalism usually has a religious connotation that indicates unwavering attachment to a set of irreducible beliefs.[1] However, fundamentalism has come to apply to a tendency among certain groups—mainly, though not exclusively, in religion—that is characterized by a markedly strict literalism as applied to certain specific scriptures, dogmas, or ideologies, and a strong sense of the importance of maintaining ingroup and outgroup distinctions,[2][3][4][5] leading to an emphasis on purity and the desire to return to a previous ideal from which advocates believe members have strayed. Rejection of diversity of opinion as applied to these established “fundamentals” and their accepted interpretation within the group is often the result of this tendency.[6]
I think of “fundamentalist” used to describe certain sects of Judaism more of a metaphor. That sort of rigid thinking shares a lot in common with Christian fundamentalists. I’ve definitely heard it before, but not as an official term.
I thought I admitted above that “fundamentalist” as applied to orthodox Jews was a little provocative, intentionally so, but only a little (and, obviously, I think defensible). The piece jym626 linked, which also uses the “fundamentalist” epithet – now that’s what “inflammatory” looks like! Among other things, it discusses the split over Zionism within ultra-orthodox Judaism in some more detail than the summary I gave above. From my point of view, it is a mishmash of clear vision, odd errors, and overblown rhetoric. I don’t really think, as the author clearly does, that ultra-orthodox Jews are the equivalent of the Taliban, although there are lots of parallels. It reminds me that Judaism and Islam are much more similar than is generally acknowledged, and have many similar doctrinal challenges.
And, yes, I am a “he.” It’s lovely to think I could be mistaken for a woman based on what I write, but not very likely when I’m feeling as combative as I’ve felt in this thread.
Why would Northwestern be an anti-semitic campus? The student body is 15 percent Jewish, and Evanston is located in an area with a large Jewish population.
Sometimes, the amount of hostility toward a minority group increases as its population grows, due to the increasing perception among others that it is some kind of threat to them.
Of course, such hostility, even at the increased level, could just be a small group of loudmouths who do not reflect the overall environment.
This is often cited as why a campus, neighborhood, country, etc. “cannot” be anti-semitic. Germany in the '30s was anti-semitic despite a large, cultured, and assimilated Jewish population. Campuses that have an anti-semitic element that contributes to the gestalt of the campus are the campuses that have a strong SJP and/or BDS presence. The liberal campuses where Jews have a long history of enrollment are unfortunately the hotbeds of SJP/BDS activity that bleeds into antisemitism.
This website tracks antisemitism on U.S. campuses. http://www.amchainitiative.org/
Here’s a recent article about antisemitism on the campuses with the largest number of Jews:
http://observer.com/2016/07/first-half-2016-anti-semitism-skyrockets-on-u-s-college-campuses/