This is false. A few groups of Hasidim, most notably the Satmars, are anti-Zionist. Others, like the Lubavitchers, are not. As far as the non-Hasidic ultra-Orthodox are concerned, I’m not aware of any that are anti-Zionist. And that’s just among Ashkenazim. The statement ignores all the Orthodox Sephardim and Mizrahim who are Zionists.
Any discussion of anti-Semitism on campuses shouldn’t ignore the cases of openly anti-Semitic faculty members, like the infamous Joy Karega at Oberlin:
@JHS - did you notice the article I linked was from Stanford?!?!?!
@LoveTheBard , yeshiva bocher isn’t an insult. It just means a boy or young man who learns at a yeshiva.
They possibky called you apikoros.
@jym626 I did, but it was some blog. That was sort of a screed, not anything remotely academic.
Weird. It is not listed as a blog- it listed as an article. Was just using it (sorry for the content!) as support for the fact that apparently there are some who use the word fundamentalism with zionism. There were other examples too, from a quick google search.
Going back to my prior post on the contentiousness of the decades old Israeli-Palestinian conflict, one of the underlying visceral conflicts in relation to the issue of antisemitism is how one defines it.
One of those underlying visceral conflicts is whether any criticisms/protests against policies/actions by the Israeli government/state are considered antisemitic or not.
One common complaint from Palestinians, Palestinian activists, and their allies on campuses and around the world is how conversations on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, especially in the US due to political factors and underlying anti-Arab/Muslim bias tends to be framed in such a manner that any criticism of Israeli government/state policies are deflected by reflexive charges of antisemitism whether justified or not.
On the flipside, many pro-Palestinian sympathizers* IME tend to shy away from much/any discussion about problematic antisemitism on their side…whether in the current activist community or historically going back decades.
Am actually surprised my prior long post(#30) on why the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is so visceral beyond mutual hostility/hatred or politics has met with a relatively tranquil response here. Last time I made similar points IRL, I ended up getting angry reactions from some of the more militant activists on both sides of the issue.
- Including those who identify as Jews/being from Jewish family/cultural backgrounds.
We’re all trying to keep this discussion rational and not heated. Otherwise nothing gets done other than hurt feelings and a closed thread. This being an “Parent” forum, makes it easier to do.
Antisemitism is hostility, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews. Protesting Israeli government policies and actions isn’t in itself antisemitc, Lots of Jews participate in protesting the government.
However, it’s when those protest turn threatening, that it’s starts to feel like anti-Semitism. The BDS (The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions) movement, but it’s very goal, is perceived as an economic attack on the people of Israeli. Throw in some of the worse activities (which have gotten different BDS chapters suspended…), and it makes many Jewish students feel threaten.
While many Palestinians don’t feel comfortable bringing up the Israeli/Palestinian issue (it’s a contentious and emotional issue), there is no Jewish counterpart to BDS on campuses. That’s not to say they don’t face discrimination and anti-Arab/Muslim bias on campuses (they do), but it’s not being stirred up by Jewish groups.
Perhaps the reason a post didn’t get a response is because many folks have indicated that they avail themselves of the ignore function.
However, the Palestinian activists and their sympathizers would argue the following to explain why there’s a good reason why there’s no Jewish counterpart to BDS on campuses:
- The US political/mass media establishment from their perspective tends to be largely favorable to Israel and treats problematic issues with its policies/actions in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict with "kid gloves". They often cite the US sending large amounts of military and economic aid going back several decades and the fact that many international media sources outside the US...including Western European democracies tend to be much more critical of Israel on those very same issues.
- As a result of #1, pro-Palestinian activists and sympathizers are often effectively ignored and silenced both on US campuses and in the larger established newsmedia, especially before the internet broke down the effective stranglehold the established newsmedia had on news in the US...especially to the younger generation.
From their perspective, the rise of the BDS/SJP movement is a reaction against the perceived pro-Israeli bias in the US political/newsmedia establishment/society.
- There isn't really a viable state to boycott, divest, or sanction nor a need to as Israel with its overwhelming military dominance already effectively controls economic and other access to/from the "Palestinian territories", routinely violates their sovereign rights agreed to in prior agreements through condoning/sanctioning the building of Jewish settlements there and destroying personal property of Palestinians living there(i.e. fruit trees), etc.
Those points have been practically ignored or heavily downplayed in the mainstream establishment US newsmedia, political establishment, and society at large, especially before the mid-late '00s when the internet brought about the rise of more newsmedia sites not associated with the established newsmedia.
While some may feel the above is too political, I feel it is important to outline and attempt to understand some of the Palestinian perspectives on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and its factoring into the BDS/SJP campus movements for a more informative discussion of this exceedingly complex and contentious issue rooted in events of the last century.
Especially considering there’s little mention of those perspectives on this thread which the pro-Palestinian side would cite as proof of the first two points.
And I say this as someone who has more serious issues with the pro-Palestinian side for a multitude of reasons including the antisemitism going back decades. However, that does not mean we shouldn’t acknowledge or try to understand their perspectives…however much we may disagree with some/most/all of them.
Hamas is behind BDS, according to Congressional testimony. Let’s not make it out to be anything else than a propaganda machine, much like the Palestinians are taught in school just geared to Americans/Europeans.
This has drifted, inevitably given how similar the issues are, into detailed policy posts. It wasn’t the actual topic, though, and has no doubt caused some blood to boil. I think the thread has served its purpose.