Can I avoid listing previous college experience on an app? Also, chances at HYPS?

Transfer Students
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<p>I graduated HS in '08 and, after deferring enrollment for a year, attended a small LAC in PA for the next year and a half. I had always been a mediocre student, despite being relatively intelligent (at least in terms of test scores), and that was evident in my collegiate academic performance. I failed all but one class in my final semester (Fall '10) at the LAC and then attended a CC back home (also in PA) the following semester. My performance continued to decline and I ended up withdrawing from my entire courseload that semester (Spring '11). There were various factors that contributed to my poor performance, but, needless to say, a change was in order. </p>

<p>As one might expect, I ended up entering the real world. That brings me to where I am now: I’m currently exploiting the oil boom in ND for fairly good money, but I want to go back to school and pursue a job in finance (the only career path I’ve ever really considered since freshman year of high school). To break into finance, it’s pretty important to attend an IB target school (i.e. HYPS and so forth). Since I can’t apply as a transfer student, right now, to any of those schools, I’d like to apply as a transfer student after completing two years (starting as a freshman) at a nearby state school or, more likely, a CC. My problem is that all of the schools I’m interested in applying to have policies stating that one cannot apply for admission after amassing more than two years worth of credits, which I will have when I apply. </p>

<p>So, my question to you is, can I simply ignore my previous college experience and apply to [wherever] as if my two years at CC or [random state school] constitute the entirety of my post-HS education? I’ve done some research, but I’m still not sure to what extent schools can or will investigate prior educational experience. I’ve never received financial aid, which is one way that prior educational experience can be traced, so I should be fine there, but I don’t know what other avenues schools can or will seek out. </p>

<p>Additionally, what do you think of my chances? I’ll be applying as a prospective Econ/CS double major or Econ major/CS minor with a ~ 4.0 gpa (I’m projecting that because, otherwise, my entire plan falls apart anyway) and a mid-1500’s SAT I. I’ll probably have experience in relevant clubs (investment/entrepreneurial/etc.), fairly unique (for those applying to the Ivies, I’m assuming, at least) work and travel experience, some independent entrepreneurial and investment experience, and potentially a couple years of collegiate (albeit CC) athletics. </p>

<p>If you’ve taken the time to read this, I sincerely appreciate it! I’ll be extremely grateful for any feedback you can provide!</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>Yes, you must list all previous colleges attended. If you don’t and the school finds out (highly likely, since there’s a clearinghouse of information), they will throw you out or, if you’ve graduated, rescind your degree. </p></li>
<li><p>You stand essentially no chance at a ultra highly selective school. </p></li>
<li><p>One would hope that someone planning a career working with other people’s money would have a more admirable ethical sense than your post implies you possess.</p></li>
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<p>First, I agree with all of annasdad’s assessments.
Next, what about achieving your goals properly.
Go back to school…maybe a state flagship or local school where you live? Excel academically this time around.
Then apply to any tippy-top grad school programs that are commensurate with your current academic level of achievement. If presented properly, you could have an interesting story to tell on your application…but before the adcoms get around to reading your interesting life story, you will need to make the cut on grades and scores.</p>

<p>Don’t even think about omitting your academic past. All applications require you to disclose previous academic experience, and if you lie and are found out later (and it always comes out later) you can be expelled or have your degree rescinded.</p>

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<p>@annasdad-Thanks for taking the time to read my (long) post! I really appreciate it! </p>

<ol>
<li><p>I suspected as much, as I know the schools I listed practically don’t accept transfers (and I think Princeton literally doesn’t), so I’m probably going to end up applying to borderline targets instead (ex. Haas, Ross, U Chicago, etc.). I’m planning to attempt to develop an inside connection at every school I’m applying to, which should slightly help my chances. One more question-how will schools view my transcript from my first go at college? If they’ll average my gpa from my first two years with that of my second, it won’t even make sense to apply to the type of schools I’ve listed… Is there a way to put an asterisk on my first two years and have them consider my application on the strength of my second try?</p></li>
<li><p>I think you might have the wrong idea. If I was just going to sweep my past under the rug, I wouldn’t be here seeking advice. I’m trying to see if there’s an appropriate course of action for me to take, by which my application will be evaluated on the strength of the transcript that I earned while not under duress. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>@boysx3-Thanks for the advice! I may end up going to a “lesser” (caveat: I’m not one to believe that there’s a linear relationship between prestige of a school and quality of education provided, but I’ll use that terminology since my major goal is to get into IB) school, but it doesn’t make sense for me to consider grad school. My reason for attending college is more for getting an IB analyst position than anything else. My end goal is to trade my own account for a living, which doesn’t require any degree at all. I don’t need to attend school for the money that may come afterwards, as there’s plenty of opportunity where I am now. So, in short, my motivation for going back to school is essentially to serve my own vanity in finishing what I should have started immediately following HS. Thus, failure to get into a target (or borderline target) school means that the opportunity cost of forgoing $XXX,XXX/year to attend X state school, that won’t get me an IB job, is too great. </p>

<p>So what do you guys think my chances are at borderline targets? Again, that’s with a ~4.0 and mid-1500’s on the old SAT. </p>

<p>Thanks again for the feedback!</p>

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<p>But wouldn’t you be applying as a transfer student from the original PA LAC?</p>

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<p>Not directly, if I wanted to get in anywhere that doesn’t accept everyone. I’m assuming that I can get ~ 4.0 at a CC, starting next year. My PA LAC gpa is somewhere in the low 2 range, so it would probably be game-ending if schools were to average those gpa’s…</p>

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<p>you think that the schools, especially the top tier, aren’t going to check your entire academic history after you are applying 5 years after graduating high school? get real kid</p>

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<p>it certainly would appear that way, huh?</p>

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<p>What schools are those? I’m in PA. I have a bachelor’s degree and next semester I’m taking some courses at my local CC. Are you sure they don’t mean you can’t transfer in more than 2 years worth of credits? Which you wouldn’t be, since they don’t typically transfer anything below a C grade and you have few courses with passing grades it seems.</p>

<p>You cannot hide your previous educational experience. They will find out. If you receive any aid, you may need to pay it back. They could throw you out of the school, or like someone else said, rescind your degree. The most you can do is show a strong upward trend by achieving that 4.0 at your new school or CC.</p>

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<p>That’s precisely what I came here to find out. </p>

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<p>Is there a difference between using deception to subvert the system and following respectable, established measures to ensure that colleges focus on my relevant educational experience? I wasn’t aware that I had indicated a preference for anything other than the latter, and I would be extremely grateful for any advice to that effect.</p>

<p>@NovaLynnx-It’s different at community colleges, but many 4-year schools don’t accept degree-seeking students with more than 2 years worth of college credits. It would be fine if they would allow me to simply relinquish (or not transfer) some or all of my previous credits, but they don’t. </p>

<p>As of now, I have a full year of college credit plus AP credits from high school. After a couple years at another school (without which I’m essentially ineligible to transfer), I will have close to a full degree worth of credits. That’s one of my concerns because, without finding some way to get schools to not consider my first couple years of school, I’ll have less than a year (credit-wise) to improve my grades and transfer.</p>

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<p>I never wanted to “hide” my experience, unless there was some sort of appropriate, standardized measure that would allow me to do so in pursuit of a fresh start, but I’ve been coming to that conclusion. Unfortunately, that may mean that my specific goals are unattainable (not that I’ll stop trying).</p>

<p>In any case, thanks for the advice! It means a lot.</p>

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<p>I’d still like to know what schools don’t allow you to apply if you have more than 2 years. Kutztown University accepted me as well for next spring despite my BA at Moravian College. I know KU isn’t the best example since it has a terrible reputation, but I know some other LACs that will take you but only transfer a certain number of credits in and make you spend at least 2 years at their school in order to graduate.</p>

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<p>Probably about half of the US News top 20 schools have the two-years-of-credit-or-less policy for transfer students. I’m sure they would take my application fee; my application would simply be even more futile than it already was. It’s not a huge deal as there are plenty of schools without that requirement. It just narrows down the list a bit.</p>

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<p>You think too much! You are dreaming top tier schools while holding a 2.0 and umpty number of W’s from a lac. I doubt very much that you can wake up one day and get 4.0 anywhere, if so, do it before discuss it here. Show me, I am from Missouri.</p>

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<p>So you want a fresh start? Go to another country such as Canada and start your BBA there. There is too much stuff to hide with your past in the US. Even with Clearinghouse or w.e. privacy blocks, 1500+ SATs and 4.0 GPA, you stand little to no chance for transfer at tier 1 or tier 2 targets…period. To transfer to an ivy, your face and name should be recognized by every college athletics coach and game announcers. </p>

<p>If you want to stay in US, I suggest you start off at a state flagship such as UM, and try to get into Ross that way. 1% of the Ross class transfers in…which equates to about 4 a year. ALso, if the school has an UG b-school, that is where all the recruiters go. It is rare for recruiters to hire econ undergrads when math undergrads know more. </p>

<p>What are your high school stats like?</p>

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<p>Okay…but you’re not going to get into one of those schools, so it’s still not an issue for you. Most lower-ranking schools will still admit you with more than 2 years of schooling, but your past GPA and attitude will create quite some obstacles.</p>

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<p>@artloversplus-I understand your point of view, but my intent in posting here was to see if you guys thought it possible for me to meet my stated goals if I can perform at a high level. If getting a 4.0 won’t get me where I want to go, then attempting to get there at all would be a waste of time and income. That being said, I have no doubts that I’m capable of getting those grades. I’m just trying to figure out if that even matters.</p>

<p>@dollarbill-I have actually looked into that a bit, but I’m not sure if my HS stats would get me in. The most selective school I was accepted at right out of HS was Emory, to give you an idea of my stats, but, given my relatively long absence (to them at least) from the world of education, I’m not sure I’d have much of a shot at the better foreign schools. One consideration I’ve had is to go to a CC in a state the promotes acceptance to their flagship school from in-state CC’s, but I’d have to look into the logistics of that a bit more to know whether or not it would be feasible.</p>

<p>@NovaLynnx-I’ve come to that realization, albeit grudgingly. One thing to note is that my stats aren’t necessarily all that representative of my performance, which is why I wish there was some sort of way to get a fresh start. I had a mediocre ~ 3.0 my first year, but my catastrophic second year-in which a late first-semester injury contributed to my failure of every class that semester, except one-a fluke-that I should have failed if the professor was paying attention, and withdrawal from all my classes the following semester. All that to say that, yeah, I wasn’t a very motivated student, but my complete failure was more due to not being in attendance at my finals than gross incompetence. Unfortunately, the system has no redress for a situation like mine.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the helpful advice everyone! I really and truly appreciate it!</p>

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<p>Here is where schools go to verify your enrollments: [National</a> Student Clearinghouse: Degree verification & enrollment verification](<a href=“http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/]National”>http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/) . When you apply and state that you have disclosed all of your past college experience, you give them permission to look you up on the clearinghouse. The clearinghouse will give your school a list of terms you attended and what school(s) you attended. If you have not provided transcripts from all schools listed, the school to which you applied will request those transcripts from you.</p>

<p>In most cases, schools will use your GPA from all of your attendance in considering your admission, so you will not be applying with a 4.0.</p>

<p>Be sure to read the maximum units for transfer information carefully - in some cases they mean that there is a maximum number of units for which you will receive credit, but there is not a maximum on the number you have earned. For example, you may have earned 80 credits, but the school to which you transfer may only accept up to 64 units.</p>

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<p>IMO,
IF you re-start with a community college now and get all As for your AA degree, transfer into a state school and get all As as well. Then, maybe at the graudate level you may be able to enter a top tier school. For UG, the chances to get nto top tier schools are so slim that it does not matter.</p>

<p>That is JUST MO. And as all the above, I really don’t think you can hide your past, but the colleges may choose forgive and forget.</p>

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<p>fresh start
I have not read everyone’s replies so excuse if it is redundant, but here would be my advice.
Go to CC for a year and amass some EXCELLENT grades. Take on some impressive projects you can list on your app. Cultivate some wonderful glowing recommendations. Then apply with all your transcripts (you MUST) and an essay explaining how you have had a shift in attitude and priorities. This honest approach would not at all be considered odd to admissions. Seriously, LOTS of kids bail and come back with a winning work ethic after a time in the real world. You are not the first nor will you be the last. Tell admissions you don’t even care if they honor ANY of your credits, you just want to start over with your new found attitude and your most recent classes were taken to prove you are capable of doing the work required. You may not get an undergraduate chance at a top tier, but that is not necessarily the end of your education. If you are that motivated and have a wonderful showing in whatever undergrad program you can into, you have an excellent chance of getting into a top tier graduate program. And ultimately for your stated line of desired work, you may need to get a masters.
Best of luck to you.</p>

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No, the system has no redress for laziness. I’m not sure that I would consider it unfortunate. This is coming from someone whose first attempt at college was about 4 weeks of classes followed by a complete withdrawal.</p>

<p>Your expectations are extremely unrealistic. Ivy league transfers are not like other transfers. Typically, people are trying to transfer to an Ivy because they couldn’t get in out of high school, not because of a change in circumstances or “lack of fit” with their current institution. You haven’t mentioned some amazing selling point that might entice them to let in someone with a shaky (at best) academic history and test scores that (for those schools) are buried somewhere in the lower part of their median 50%.</p>

<p>I can certainly understand wanting to make a fresh start, I did the same. You just don’t seem to have much of a grasp on the real world. Given your past and lack of apparent change of heart, I find it extremely unlikely that you have what it takes to pull a 4.0 for two years, especially if your only motivation is “vanity.” The amount of effort you are willing to put in shows when you post a question here asking if you have a shot transferring into Princeton before you even check to see if they take transfers. Leave the spot open for someone who actually wants and needs to go to school, someone who will put in the work.</p>

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<p>@ alamemom - Thanks for the info! I’m now fairly aware of how US schools will investigate my past, but do foreign schools use the NSC as well? Also, in saying that I was applying with a 4.0, I meant that I would be applying with a 4.0 since returning to school. I do understand that most schools do accept transfer applicants with more than 60 credits.</p>

<p>@ artloversplus - Thanks for your input! I would love for colleges to forgive and forget, but I doubt it will happen. I’m not interested in grad school, but I do understand I would have better chances at getting accepted into an elite program at that level.</p>

<p>@ #theorymom - Thanks for the reply! Your response essentially summarized my plans, with the exception of attending grad school (I understand that, in my position, grad school may be necessary; nonetheless, I have no plans whatsoever to attend grad school in the near future).</p>

<p>@ mookerson - Thanks for your opinion! I was lazy my first year (when I received a mediocre 3.0), but my 2nd year was marked by external circumstances of a semi-traumatic nature. Without those circumstances, I would have undoubtedly continued on my path of mediocrity (but not even come close to failing). I do understand (by this point) that my plans are unrealistic, but I’m not sure they’re unrealistic in the same way you seem to be implying. Yes, my GPA is abominable. My test scores are in the 99th percentile, though, and I have some experience that most undergrads applying to IB target schools probably don’t. Further, the schools that I thought I might have an outside chance at being admitted to were more along the lines of Berkeley, UVA, or maybe UChicago (since they seem to like unique applicants) than Harvard or Stanford. </p>

<p>I’m not really sure why you don’t think I’ve had a change of heart-I thought that was evident from my posts. Right now I work 90+ hour weeks in difficult conditions (ie the engineering majors that I used to live with have it easy, from my current perspective). I should have clarified the “vanity” point. I couldn’t care less about what anyone else thinks of me (aside from admissions officers or interviewers). I should have said that much of my motivation for pursuing this course of action comes from my desire to right a past wrong, so to speak, in meeting a goal that I once failed miserably to reach. Also, I’m aware (and have been since long before I started this thread) that Princeton doesn’t accept transfers. I included it on my list to emphasize the scope of my plans (and “HYPS” looks better than “HYS”). I’m not sure my post would have attracted as many replies had I asked about my chances to UMich or UVA.</p>

<p>Thanks again everyone for your advice and input!</p>