<p>I am sure many a student or an irritated parent felt this way before. My question is simple. Can State Universities - (Public State Universities and not private Universities) be sued if they admit students from the same high school who have significantly lower SAT scores (I am talking more than 100 point lower), lower academic performance, lower strength of schedules, and lower levels of extra curricular activities and accomplishments than someone else who is not given admission? Do citizens have any rights at all in this matter to question State schools or do these state schools have absolute power in this? I am not talking affirmative action or any other special preference case here. Just regular students competing in the general pool.
Maybe this is a “vent” but I would like to know what other parents feel and what the legal status of this is. Thanks.</p>
<p>I can’t see why not, although I can’t imagine what good would possibly come of it (the same could certainly be said of suing a private institution). </p>
<p>Although this is probably not what you had in mind, this happens at many colleges in a way all the time…students applying to the Business or Engineering colleges at UIUC, for example, face a much more rigorous process than at the other colleges. While much rarer, especially at a public university, I can see this happening even within the same college if there is an extremely special major involved. </p>
<p>However, though even at state universities there are always somewhat puzzling cases of admission, many (most?) are set up to make this unlikely, because admission is often fairly computerized and high stats are often plenty to gain admission.</p>
<p>Not successfully.</p>
<p>JVJ, just off the top of my head, and without benefit of sleep, disregarding potential governmental immunity issues and the fact that EC’s can’t be reduced to a number (Math Olympiad vs. Founder of Charity vs. National Champion Show -Jumper) , if a school was stupid enough to straight-jacket itself into a hard and fast formula for admissions (like some non-discretionary index number like (GPA out of 100x30) + (sat ) = admission , and the school expressly states that the arrived at index number was the sole criteria for admissions, then yes, Dumb@#$ U could be sued for their failure to follow their own rules and there would be some hope of recovery. (That would be especially so in a situation where the student/family had relied upon the published index and such reliance was reasonable and was to their detriment.)</p>
<p>But that 's not what they do , or at least I’ve never run up against one. 
So barrons is right. ;)</p>
<p>U of Michigan was sued a few years ago (it was big news) and so was UGA. I believe bvoth school’s admission policies had to be changed after the litigation.</p>
<p>U Mich was sued over race advantages. Don’t know about UGA.</p>
<p>jym, I wasn’t viewing this as an EP claim, or any constitutional (state or fed) claim for that matter, or claim under any Title. Just on the facts as laid out without knowing any other info . If I thought the question HAD asked about court challenges such as the one in Michigan, I wouldn’t have answered and please consider my answer withdrawn. I’ve been there too many times lately. Nothing is EVER solved, and to tell the truth, no one’s opinion is ever changed. Just hardened. ;)</p>
<p>As long as it doesn’t involve race or sex based discrimination, I doubt it. The main tipping factor was probably the essays and/or interview. Colleges have the right to admit whoever they want, so I doubt a lawsuit would be at all successful.</p>
<p>JVJ: welcome to “holistic admissions.” State schools want your taxpayer dollars; not your opinions. The agenda of the Legislature is what they follow. Given government immunities for all kinds of discretionary decisions, a lawsuit would be Quixotic.</p>
<p>My intention in suing would be to make the admissions process more open and transparent and not leave it to counselor A or counselor B in determining which essay is better.
As someone else posted in another of these forums, we tell our kids to work hard, do their best and have faith in the system. When the system does not appear fair or the system hides behind the bureaucracy / opaque rules in terms of not explaining why candidate A was selected and B was not then perhaps the only way to force some transparency into the system is maybe to sue.
In this case, my son was passed over for admission in favor of other kids from his same school who were below him in terms of class rank, SAT scores, and extracurriculars (I do not however know about the essay - recommendations were great for my son - don’t know about the others). This was by a top 25 Public State University. He however has been admitted into another top 25 State Univ. out of state, the common perception being that it is more difficult to get out of state admission into where my son has been admitted than instate in his own state.
While I am glad and happy that my son is going to a good school, I will be paying out of state tuition and I wonder if as a taxpayer, I have any rights at all in forcing the University in my state to explain its admission process and tell me why my son was passed over. So far, I have not got any real answers.
This is the background.</p>
<p>Admissions decisions will vary–Harvard but not Brown etc etc. You won’t win and UNC is about the same as UVa which rejects many many equally qualified kids for a variety of reasons.</p>
<p>One of the philosophies behind holistic admissions is that the application of students — stats, accomplishments, etc. — will be looked at in context of his/her set of advantages or disadvantages in life. So the univ system could certainly argue that the student admitted with scores, GPA, ECs that appear to be less impressive than your S’s actually had more personal obstacles to overcome to obtain them, and thus, in context, are not lesser at all. You could try to sue, but you’d spend a lot of money and not get very far unless you know there was a race/sex discrimination aspect to it. </p>
<p>In CA, the UCs promise “a” spot to qualified candidates, but you’re not guaranteed a spot in the UC of your choice. Everyone would like to have more transparency in regard to admissions in the UC system, but how can that be helpful if what adcoms are looking for fluctuates from year to year with each freshman class? (At least as far as athletics, arts, needs of individual programs seeking top students, and such.)</p>
<p>JVJ:</p>
<p>There’s always a possibility that a mistake was made in the review of your S’s app. Are you sure something wasn’t left off the app or that your S didn’t make some mistake in filling it out? </p>
<p>Have you tried an appeal?</p>
<p>curmudgeon-
Did something I say upset you?? I posted a response to the question “has anyone sued a state school”. Not sure what seems to have upset you, causing you to withdraw your post. In fact, my post wasn’t even in response to yours. so I am not sure why your response was directed at me. Hope you have gotten some sleep and can clarify what that was all about. In fact, I dont even know what your “EP” claim refers to. If you wish to clarify your post, it sure would be helpful.</p>
<p>JVJ, </p>
<p>Read carefully through all the admissions material from the university. Do they claim a specific policy for favoritism/ guaranteed admissions which you feel was breached or which you feel discriminated against your son? (For example, Texas has/ had that 10% top of class policy) Only if that is so can you hope to sue and then you would take your chances. </p>
<p>In general, colleges and universities admit who they want-- even state schools. The response from the state school would probably be that they guarantee eligible residents a public education but not admission to a specific institution. So, presumably, there are less competitve public colleges in your state and the community college system. </p>
<p>By the way, one of my children (an underrepresented minority) didn’t get into our state school either (or into several private schools where she met the criteria). She did end up going to an out-of-state public school which gapped my aid by a lot. She also had to turn down state grants. The whole thing cost me a lot of $. All that to say, I understand but there are few guarantees in the college admissions game. (There are some: community college articulation and transfer agreements, that Texas thing, etc.)</p>
<p>Thanks for the replies. I was told that the University does not have an appeals process. People I spoke to at the admissions office were nice and polite but really would not give me any concrete answers.
Again, I am happy that my S has admission in another good institution. But it pains me that in the name of “holistic” admissions, University officials can basically admit whomever what they want. Most University officials to be fair are decent folks who try to interpret the rules as best as they can and consistently. However, their decisions have real consequences, economic and emotional, and all I can hope for is that the process can be turned into a more transparent and objective process. Perhaps I am being naive and idealistic and suing is not going to help / work either and not the way to go.</p>
<p>Good decision. The school is trying to build a class of individuals and it’s not something you can fit into a grid. If they already have 10 violin players maybe they will prefer a drummer. It’s not all about numbers.</p>
<p>Everyone can tell these kinds of huh? what’s going on here? stories. A year ago, everyone was mystified when the boy with higher SATs, GPA, lots of ECs including student govt., sports, music, and leadership committees at school was rejected from Yale while another boy, with good SATs and GPA (but not as high) and no ECs at school got accepted. Both male, same ethnicity. All you can say is that there is far more in the applications being considered and much more nuance to the admissions decisions than those of us on the outside looking in can appreciate. The only main difference between these two was that the boy who was accepted was a first-generation immigrant whose parents were working in blue-collar jobs, and the other was U.S. born and his parents were professionals. It’s all very subjective. Don’t forget that you kid can do one year out of state, work really hard for top grades, and most likely be able to transfer to the in-state college.</p>
<p>Here are some references onthe litigation involving the admissionprocess at UGA and UMichigan. They were, in part, reverse discrimination lawsuits.
<a href=“UGA Today - Today’s top news from the University of Georgia”>UGA Today - Today’s top news from the University of Georgia;
<a href=“http://www.vpcomm.umich.edu/admissions/[/url]”>http://www.vpcomm.umich.edu/admissions/</a></p>
<p>JVJ,
Do you know if other applicants were “legacies” -either parents or grandparents? Have heard this plays a role in acceptance also. Good luck to you and son. If anyone could crack the code on college admissions we could write a book. I would love to be a fly on the wall during some of the selction process.</p>