Can State colleges be sued on admissions related decisions?

Parents Forum
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<p>Higherlead:</p>

<p>There are different issues involved. One is general admission practices. The second is the specific case. I am not persuaded that the OP’s son was discriminated against on any ground.
I happen to have read a lot of folders for a variety of reasons. I am mindful that the order in which I read some folders has a bearing on my reaction to some aspects of the folders. For example, if I read ten essays on the same topic, I may be less receptive to the ninth or tenth than I was on the first couple. But that is not discrimination. It is human foible. It may be deplorable but it is not actionable. It is very possible that nothing more nefarious happened than a reader or set of readers were not bowled over by the application of the OP’s son. </p>

<p>Colleges are usually pretty upfront about what they require in terms of high school preparation but leave themselves wiggle room. Here is an excerpt from the UMass-Amherst website:</p>

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<p>This is not about building a class of students with diverse interests, experiences, backgrounds, but about how UMass-Amherst evaluates individual applicants. One can argue that "combination of talents, experiences, interests, mastery, and goals " is vague; it’s hard to argue that it is discriminatory or an inappropriate guideline for a college admission office to have.</p>

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<p>"combination of talents, experiences, interests, mastery, and goals " </p>

<p>vague?? oh no not at all.</p>

<p>Conbination of which talents? Any talents? A talent for petty crime? Any experience? Everybody has experiences. Are they all equal? Are some experiences more equal than others? Is my Summer as a pole dancer better or worse than my Summer clubbing baby seals? Mastery of what? Obfuscation? Goals? My goal is to establish an Islamic state and sharia in Massachusetts. Is that a goal that would be approved of or disapproved? Why would that goal be better or worse than the goal to have sex with my neighbor? Why is it the University of Mass Amherst’s business what my goals are? Do only people with goals approved by the adcoms at the University of Mass. Amherst get to take such fine courses as The Social Construction of Whiteness and Women?</p>

<p>The answer to that last one is yes.</p>

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<p>Higherlead:
If colleges were to be as specific as you seem to want them to be (spelling out exactly what goals and interests applicants might have, for example) it would seem to me they would become vulnerable to suits as there is no way to make a comprehensive list that would not exclude something or other.</p>

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<p>I’m surprised by the vitriole leveled at adcoms on this thread. Is admissions a transparent process? Well, yes and no. Yes, because the quality of each admitted class is roughly equal to that of the year before, and therefore there’s a history of the type of student each school admits. It’s not a secret society. And no, because some of the desirable qualities listed are not mathematically weighted nor are they quantifiable. How is that different from getting a job, however? When a position is advertised, the employer lists required and desirable qualifications, but the ultimate decision is based on intangibles – personality, perception of the person as a “team player,” recommendations, etc. Even a job in the public sector is evaluated in this manner. Why should anyone expect a university, public or private, to operate purely on the quantifiables? </p>

<p>If a student applies to a range of schools, with attention made to fit and the application itself, he should get in somewhere. He is never guaranteed acceptance at any one place – that’s just the way life is. Why sue over a rejection? I understand that in-state tuition might be needed desperately by the family, but no one, not even an in-state resident, is promised admission to a particular state school.</p>

<p>Instead of considering legal action, the student and his parents should concentrate on making the most of the situation they found themselves in. Of course, there are cases in which law suits are necessary to transform society (in effect, to force justice), but a single applicant wanting admission to a specific public university does not fit this description.</p>

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<p>can you just imagine the costs of adequately waging such a legal fight just during the discovery process? It would undoubtedly exceed 4 yrs of tuition costs just to wade through and analyze that year’s applications, deposing adcom members and administrators, etc, not to mention the impact that rolling admissions have on admission decisions.</p>

<p>And what if the admission of the poorer student were merely an adcom’s mistake? That would not mean that the other student should be granted admission.</p>

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<p>I know I’m getting sucked back into this, and feel like I’m teaching an elementary constitutional law and civil procedure class, but what the heck.</p>

<p>A plaintiff cannot go fishing in discovery. He must state a colorable claim for relief in his complaint. For an equal protection complaint, that includes an allegation of which class he belongs to, and at least vaguely why he believes that the class of which he is a member has been subject to discrimination. Under your scenario, higherlead, where he would not know which class he belongs to until after he has conducted discovery, plaintiff would not survive a motion to dismiss, let alone summary judgment. He cannot bring a case alleging that he was discriminated against on the basis of “unknown personal biases.”</p>

<p>Do you have a citation for a successful equal protection case in which the plaintiff was not a member of a class? </p>

<p>Oh, and if you think college admissions are not transparent, try the legal system. The rules, hoops and requirements to bring successful lawsuits make college admissions look like glass. That’s why you need 3 years of schooling before you can practice law.</p>

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<p>Here’s an excerpt from the UGA page on their admissions criteria:</p>

<p>“UGA’s Faculty Admissions Committee has identified a number of additional factors that may be considered in admission decisions or merit scholarship consideration. These include: excellence in academic achievement, intellectual pursuits and creative endeavors; an understanding of and respect for intellectual, social and cultural differences; significant commitment to citizenship through public service, school activities, community involvement, leadership, and/or family; evidence of integrity and personal maturity; and the ability to benefit from a culturally and intellectually diverse community of scholar-citizens.”</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.admissions.uga.edu/6_fy_adm_criteria.html[/url]”>http://www.admissions.uga.edu/6_fy_adm_criteria.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>So just how do they decide who doesn’t respect intellectual, social, & cultural differences and who won’t benefit from a culturally and intellectually diverse community of scholar-citizens?</p>

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<p>Chedva, me too. I said that I was posting my last words on the subject, but I’ll try again.</p>

<p>higherlead, you have spent much of this thread giving legal advice while disparaging lawyers. You’re perfectly free to do that, but at least get it right. There is no reported equal protection case of which I, or any of the lawyers in this thread are aware, where a plaintiff who was not a member of a protected or quasi-protected class was able to successfully challenge an admission or employment decision on discrimination grounds. City of Cleburne, the only case you’ve cited, involved the denial of a zoning permit to build a group home for the mentally ■■■■■■■■, and has absolutely nothing to do with how a subjective admissions decision would be considered. Further, as Chedva points out, there is no equal protection case which has ever been successfully litigated without plaintiff’s being able to identify the class he/she belongs to which is being discriminated against. And, no judge I have ever appeared before would permit a litigant to conduct discovery to find out if there was such a class and, if so, whether the plaintiff was in it without a claim being stated. There are rules requiring a litigant to plead based on a good faith belief, reached AFTER REASONABLE INVESTIGATION, that an actionable wrong has been commited, and sanctions which can be imposed for violation of these rules. </p>

<p>The idea that the class in this specific case is “those the admissions department harboured personal biases against” is ludicrous. If you’re suggesting that a plaintiff could successfully file a complaint like that, well, I’ll reiterate the sanctions comment above.</p>

<p>marite also makes a great point–colleges which make specific requirements can be at risk as well. Note that there were two University of Michigan cases–one involving the undergraduate school, and one involving the law school. In the undergrad case, UM spelled out its point system giving specific, quantifiable weight to being a URM, while in the law school case, it subjectively took that factor into account as a possible part of the quilt, but did not quantify the weight of that factor. The undergrad system was struck down, but the law school system was upheld (the law school case is Grutter v. Bollinger, if you’re interested). So much for the idea that the adcom’s decision process must be easily discernable and, to use your term, “transparen[t]”. </p>

<p>I’ve refrained from asking, but I have to now–are you a lawyer? Have you ever litigated a case? What do you do? What is your stake or interest in this? Several in this thread have put ourselves out there, and identified ourselves as litigators, adcoms, etc., so that our opinions can be judged in light of our experience. Time for you to stand up and be counted.</p>

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<p>dadtimesthree, I tried to tell everybody several pages back. He’s not interested in learning about what the law is . He’s just bellyaching and blathering nonsense. You should have stopped when I did. LOL. Like I said. It’s like dealing with a pro se. They are rarely right but they can make your life miserable for a short time. Leave it be.</p>

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<p>“So just how do they decide who doesn’t respect intellectual, social, & cultural differences and who won’t benefit from a culturally and intellectually diverse community of scholar-citizens?”</p>

<p>Ask the three lawyers not me:-)</p>

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<p>I am going to leave this discussion now with one final thought/question. Can anybody here thing of any other social service the state hands out to the general citizenry besides higher education that does not have very time bound and measurable criteria? Whatever taxpayer funded services besides college admissions have a board of selectors who meet in private to decide who gets and doesn’t get services based on criteria as vague as those published by your average state university?</p>

<p>It would be interesting to see what would happen if states started adopting these kind of vague criteria for admissions to the bar.</p>

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<p>Try employment decisions above the civil service level.</p>

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<p>They already do - there is a “good citizenship” and “good character” requirement.</p>

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<p>If I can veer back to the practical for a minute, I would advise the parent to consult the school’s guidance counselor. Sometimes admissions offices are more forthcoming with a guidance counselor than they are with a parent. A parent has a different agenda than a guidance counselor, especially a disappointed parent. </p>

<p>In contrast, the admissions counselor has a professional relationship with the GC, and has a serious interest in providing the school with useful information that the GC can use in advising other college-bound students in their preparation, their applications, and their expectations. After all, the guidance counselor has an interest in the admissions outcomes for all students, not just the one who didn’t get in. </p>

<p>This is also why it is unlikely at a selective college that an admissions counselor will get tired of reading a big stack on Friday and just reject everyone in the pile. They may have to answer for those decisions, and it could effect their relationship with guidance counselors and the flow of future applicants from the schools those rejected apps came from. Truly arbitrary rejections are a lose-lose for everyone.</p>

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<p>“Whatever taxpayer funded services besides college admissions have a board of selectors who meet in private to decide who gets and doesn’t get services based on criteria as vague as those published by your average state university?”</p>

<p>Plenty of government bodies – starting with the White House – hand out contracts to whomever they please under whatever criteria they choose.</p>

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<p>Not to mention the City of Chicago ;-)</p>

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<p>Chedva - employment is not a government service. It is hiring someone to do a service. And if anybody doesn’t think there is a twelve foot stack of extremly detailed rules for letting government contracts they have never been involved with one.</p>

<p>It is also interesting that you should mention the character and fitness examination for the bar as it is quite specific in most states ans has an detailed appeals process. i.e. it is nothing like college admissions, and it is very clear what kinds of things will render you unfit.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.abanet.org/legaled/publications/onlinepubs/model_for_dialogue.html#III[/url]”>http://www.abanet.org/legaled/publications/onlinepubs/model_for_dialogue.html#III&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>“The idea that the class in this specific case is “those the admissions department harboured personal biases against” is ludicrous. If you’re suggesting that a plaintiff could successfully file a complaint like that, well, I’ll reiterate the sanctions comment above.”</p>

<p>Village of Willowbrook v. Olech</p>

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<p>(From the UGA admissions criteria)</p>

<p>“an understanding of and respect for intellectual, social and cultural differences”</p>

<p>“and the ability to benefit from a culturally and intellectually diverse community of scholar-citizens”</p>

<p>I read these two attributes to mean- if you are a bigot, race supremist, intolerant of other religions, or make distinctions about people based on their socio-economic class, you are not welcome and need not apply.</p>

<p>The other requirements are pretty easily definable and measurable:</p>

<p>“excellence in academic achievement, intellectual pursuits and creative endeavors” (your GPA, scores, music audition/art portfolio/journalism portfolio, etc)</p>

<p>“significant commitment to citizenship through public service, school activities, community involvement, leadership, and/or family” (your community service, ECs, employment)</p>

<p>“evidence of integrity and personal maturity” (hopefully you don’t have disciplinary problems or a police record)</p>

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<p>How about any government sponsored youth sports program with tryouts … some subset of coaches and administrators get together in a closed forum and decide who makes a team and which team they make. And the best processes, as defiend by youth sports experts, do not exactly follow numerical results … the group considers many factors and decides the best outcome for all involved. For example, 3 of the top rated players are all goalies and if numbers were followed blindly they would all be on the “A” team … instead the 3rd of the 3 goalies is placed on the “B” team so they all can play more.</p>

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<p>Please stop quoting cases which have nothing to do with the subject area. Again, in Willowbrook, we’re talking about application of a law concerning zoning, where a determination of whether it is applied to similarly situated people differently is easily discernable. This is not the case with admissions or hiring decisions. I repeat–that claim, which would have to be based on speculation, and the desire to conduct a fishing expedition, would likely get a plaintiff sanctioned.</p>

<p>Have fun continuing your crusade, citing cases which are completely inapposite to this one, and ignoring cases like Bollinger. I’m done.</p>