Can the Police Really Do that?

[cobrat]

<p>

Pizzagirl, there are always elements who will take advantage of social unrest, and political protests. They are opportunistic, and yes, criminal in their actions. Theft and destruction of property are criminal, and there’s no way to dress that up.

</p>

<p>Also, one must not discount the possibility of governments/police forces using agent provocateurs…especially considering it has been done in the US in past cases like Cointelpro overwhelmingly against Civil Rights groups in the '60s. </p>

<p>

Thug is a word that comes out of the gansta rap culture.

</p>

<p>Actually, the word thug has a much older origin. It originated from a series of criminal groups in what is now India in pre-colonial and early colonial periods. </p>

[sally305]

<p>

I find it interesting folks like her are spending more time discussing Brown’s wrongs and the angry reaction to the shooting than discussing the fact Ferguson’s PD has had a past history which includes LYING IN COURT to cover up and excuse beating a man who happened to be Black* in their custody AFTER they found they picked up the wrong guy due to mistaken ID and yet…felt they couldn’t just release him as they should have.

</p>

<p>cobrat is right. Why is no one examining the complete ineptitude and history of racial profiling within the Ferguson police department?</p>

<p><a href=“The Day Ferguson Cops Were Caught in a Bloody Lie”>http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[razorsharp]

<p>

As has been shown time and again, black males in this country are too often seen as inherently dangerous, armed or not; that latent within the abundance of melanin itself, is criminality just waiting to be loosed upon society.

</p>

<p>African American males are disproportionately more likely to engage in crime than other groups. African Americans make up approximately 13 percent of the population and approximately 40 percent of the prison population. It is always wrong to presume anything about anybody based on race, but the statistics suggest a pattern that no one would be wise to disregard including a police officer whether white, black or some other race.</p>

<p>Again, there no evidence in this case that the white police officer would not have shot a white suspect to acted in the same way as did Brown.</p>

[Flossy]

<p>The Zimmerman trial lasted over a month. I had the opportunity to watch the entire thing gavel to gavel. Didn’t miss a second. Stand your ground was not involved. The problem I see here is that people choose sides on these things in the first week based on preconceived notions and misinformation and before the facts are in and then they are immovable in the face of evidence. Like the OJ trial. Nothing mattered. So, we do for one criminal trial and one civil trial. Everybody wins.</p>

[sally305]

<p>

African American males are disproportionately more likely to engage in crime than other groups.

</p>

<p>No, black males are disproportionately likely to be PROSECUTED for crime than other groups. There is countless research on this but here’s one bit.</p>

<p><a href=“The Top 10 Most Startling Facts About People of Color and Criminal Justice in the United States - Center for American Progress”>The Top 10 Most Startling Facts About People of Color and Criminal Justice in the United States - Center for American Progress;

[Cardinal_Fang]

<p>Even if it wouldn’t have made any difference, I find this a chilling disregard of a human life:</p>

<p>

Mr. Stone [a neighbor] ran outside and saw two police officers, both white men, standing near Mr. Brown, who was lying on his stomach, his arms at his sides, blood seeping from his head. **Another neighbor, a woman who identified herself as a nurse, was begging the officers to let her perform CPR.</p>

<p>They refused,** Mr. Stone said, adding, “They didn’t even check to see if he was breathing.”

<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/16/us/ferguson-mo-michael-brown-and-darren-wilson-2-paths-to-a-fatal-encounter.html?_r=0”>http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/16/us/ferguson-mo-michael-brown-and-darren-wilson-2-paths-to-a-fatal-encounter.html?_r=0&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[busdriver11]

<p>“busdriver . . . I don’t know if you fall into the same bad habit of reading comments on local news outlet web sites, but in the short period that Marshawn Lynch was accused of assault these same kinds of knee jerk ugly comments were instantaneous. For the record, he was sequestered in the team hotel under curfew and bed check rules for training camp when he was accused of assault and property damage for some incident at 2am (not sexual assault). Good thing for him the team could prove that he was at the team hotel and he was cleared, but that didn’t stop the public from saying really horrible things about him where thug was just the tip of the iceberg. I am up and out early and I often wonder who has the energy to be that vitriolic at 4:30 am. However, there are people out there who seem to be just primed and ready to pounce and be proved right in every ounce of hatred that they have.”</p>

<p>@saintfan, I can’t stand to read those comments. Too vicious. I can’t even believe people like that exist, they seem like a bunch of trolls. There seem to be many of those people out in force for this incident, whether hating the victims and hating the cops with the same vitriol.</p>

[Flossy]

<p>CF- At that point they can’t just let civilians start moving a body at a crime scene. They just can’t.</p>

[razorsharp]

<p>

disproportionately likely to be PROSECUTED

</p>

<p>The article you cite is from an organization with a political agenda and even if it were not such an organization, the article does not support your assertion. </p>

<p>The idea that whites and other races are not be prosecuted because of their race and thus skewing the statistics is simply fantasy. Indeed that fantasy prevents people from trying to fix the problem because you cannot fix a problem if you pretend it does not exist. </p>

<p>African American are disproportionately more likely to engage in crime and that is a hard cold fact.</p>

[Cardinal_Fang]

<p>They didn’t know yet that he was a “body” and not a live person who could be saved. Because they didn’t check.</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

CF- At that point they can’t just let civilians start moving a body at a crime scene. They just can’t.

</p>

<p>Funny how you assume he was already dead at that moment when we don’t know that for sure. </p>

<p>If it turned out Brown was still alive and the cops were found to have preventing a nurse who was volunteering her services in an attempt to save his life, then those cops would be morally as well as legally responsible as accessories to his death. </p>

[saintfan]

<p>I would be careful when discussing “poster children” and “play books” . . . you are taking about 2 dead teens who I’m sure would just have rather made it the last 2 blocks home than be symbolic of anything. People are talking of poster children they are trying to pick the perfect case to take to the Supreme Court, as if Brown died so he could be the next Edith Windsor. </p>

[razorsharp]

<p>

The feds want to perform their own autopsy on Michael Brown, the unarmed teen shot dead by local police in Ferguson, Missouri, a week ago.</p>

<p>“Due to the extraordinary circumstances involved in this case and at the request of the Brown family, Attorney General Holder has instructed Justice Department officials to arrange for an additional autopsy to be performed by a federal medical examiner,” Justice Department spokesman Brian Fallon said in statement. “This independent examination will take place as soon as possible. Even after it is complete, Justice Department officials still plan to take the state-performed autopsy into account in the course of their investigation.”

</p>

<p><a href=“Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown”>http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/holder-orders-doj-do-further-autopsy-michael-brown-n182626&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Sounds like a good idea to me.</p>

[zoosermom]

<p>African American men might be less likely to come to the attention of the criminal justice system if they were more likely to be employed. It is heartbreaking how they are systematically excluded from the myriad benefits of employment. Unfortunately, there are other ethnic groups whose needs are prioritized more highly by politicians seeing larger numbers as more votes to keep them in power. The status quo of government doesn’t work in places like ferguson or Camden or Detroit.</p>

[busdriver11]

<p>“When a bunch of white college kids flip over cars and loot stores after a football victory, are they thugs?”</p>

<p>Yes. </p>

<p>“How about the Bundy ranch supporters or anyone else flaunting their large weapon in public–“thugs” or something else?”</p>

<p>No, if someone is carrying a legal weapon in a legal manner, no, they are not thugs. Why would you call them that?</p>

<p>If you rob a store, if you loot a store, yep, you’re a thug. Don’t like the title, then don’t rob or loot a store. Committing a crime that can get you arrested and go to jail for is behaving like a thug.</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

No, if someone is carrying a legal weapon in a legal manner, no, they are not thugs. Why would you call them that?

</p>

<p>Legal manner? </p>

<p>Last I checked, pointing weapons at Federal officials trying to do their jobs is not legal. </p>

<p>In fact, doing so to anyone unprovoked or in the course of performing lawful activities would constitute assault in most jurisdictions. </p>

<p>

African American men might be less likely to come to the attention of the criminal justice system if they were more likely to be employed. It is heartbreaking how they are systematically excluded from the myriad benefits of employment.

</p>

<p>Then why is it poor Whites don’t have nearly the same issues in this regard even though statistically, they make up practically the same proportion of folks receiving welfare benefits as their Black counterparts?</p>

<p><a href=“http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/07/02/poverty-in-america-myths-about-welfare-recipients/”>http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/07/02/poverty-in-america-myths-about-welfare-recipients/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And it’s interesting you’re not discussing the well-known disparate treatment Whites and Blacks receive at the hands of our criminal justice system from the moment of being spotted for a police stop to sentencing. </p>

<p>For instance, why was a higher SES White woman freed without being sentenced to a jail term after getting caught stealing $1600 worth of goods from high end stores whereas a Black man was shot dead for holding a BB gun he picked up to purchase from a toy store?</p>

<p><a href=“No Jail Time For Elite Real Estate Broker Who Shoplifted $1,600 In Clothes From Saks - Gothamist”>http://gothamist.com/2014/08/12/justice_blinded.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“Family of man killed by cops at Wal-Mart demands video”>Family of man killed by cops at Wal-Mart demands video;

[Flossy]

<p>So, now we are going to have three autopsy’s and a bunch of pathologists bickering about possibilities. Something for everyone.</p>

[sally305]

<p>razorsharp, here are FBI statistics from 2011.</p>

<p>

In 2011, 69.2 percent of all individuals arrested were white, 28.4 percent were black, and 2.4 percent were of other races.
Of all juveniles (individuals under the age of 18) arrested in 2011 in the nation, 65.7 percent were white, 32.0 percent were black, and 2.3 percent were of other races.
Nearly 70 percent (69.7) of all adults (18 years of age and over) arrested in 2011 were white, 27.9 percent were black, and 2.3 percent were of other races.
White individuals were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race, accounting for 59.4 percent of those arrests.
The percentages of white adults and black adults arrested for murder were similar, with 48.2 percent being white, and 49.4 percent being black.
Juveniles who were black accounted for 51.4 percent of juvenile arrests for violent crimes.
Juveniles who were white accounted for 62.4 percent of juvenile arrests for property crimes.
Of the juveniles arrested for driving under the influence, 91.6 percent were white.
Juveniles who were white accounted for 72.9 percent of the persons under 18 who were arrested for arson in 2011.

</p>

<p>Based on these numbers, there is no reason blacks should make up such a disproportionate number of prisoners.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43”>http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[beachlover15]

<p>^^^ And yet, not a tank or teargas can in sight when Bundy and his merry band of psychos had their guns pointed at federal agents.</p>

[poetsheart]

<p>That’s the conservative talking point, indeed, Razorsharp. But what it conveniently leaves out is the fact that a large portion of the black prison population is there for non-violent drug offenses, that blacks are many times more likely to be arrested for drug use and possession than their white counterparts (who are less likely to even be searched for drug possession, and when busted, more likely to receive court leniency such as probation, and treatment/counseling). And this is much in keeping with the perception that black drug use is viewed as indicative of inherent moral turpitude, while white drug use is merely “recreational” (particularly when used by middle or upper income college students) or they have fallen victim to “addiction”, a “medical condition”. In the past few decades, a private prison management industry has risen up that has been incentivized to incarcerate as many black and brown people as possible on drug convictions. It’s extremely lucrative for that lobby, and has the added benefit of removing these offenders permanently from voting eligibility.</p>