<p>Just thought this information is important to clarify median household income in the US.</p>
<p>Many families are shocked when they find out how high there efc is. CC posters always quote the median household income in the US as 50k. The median household income figure is skewed downward because there are many one person households included in the calculation. Since the expected family contribution is for a family and not an individual we should not use the the 50k figure. According to the government real median family income for 2012 was $64,053 with married-couple households having the highest median family income of $75,694 (See page 7).</p>
<p>I can’t imagine any non-affluent family (under $200k) paying a whole bunch for an ivy for engineering. That is just a total waste of money. </p>
<p>I remember when my dept hired a Cornell eng’g grad. He kept dropping the “I went to Cornell” line in every conversation. Yes, we got it. You went to Cornell. Go Big Red!! lol Well imagine how annoyed he was to find out that his fellow UCI and CSULB new hires were paid the same as him? lolololol (I’m sure his parents weren’t pleased! )</p>
<p>We make well under 200K and have a kid attending Cornell for engineering (CS). He got some (fairly generous) need-based aid, but we’re still stretching to pay for it, and he’s taking on loans. He had other more affordable options (where we’d have been paying about the same amount but he would not have had loans). </p>
<p>We don’t expect him to be paid more than new hires from other schools when he gets a job, and neither does he. (He’s also not a name-dropper – that’s just tacky.) Choosing Cornell wasn’t about being paid more or about being able to show off. It was about finding a school that felt like a fit in many dimensions. When we visited, he felt like he belonged there.</p>
<p>To some extent, it was about not being the smartest kid in the room for a change. It was about being able to work on group projects with intellectual peers, where everyone pulls their weight. It was about having a choice of 20 engineering project teams to join. And it was about being challenged to work your butt off for a B, even though you sleepwalked through all A’s in high school. In our family’s value system, these are worthwhile intangibles. </p>
<p>More pragmatically, it was about being likely to be able to get a relevant summer internship after freshman year (most other engineering schools we’ve visited both with DS1 and DS2 have basically said “very little chance” to that question), and a huge alumni network that may make it more likely that he can get the type of job he wants when he graduates (once he figures out what that is!) </p>
<p>Many other schools, especially honors programs/colleges, offer many of these advantages as well, but for DS1, he didn’t find one that seemed to fit as well as Cornell. He’ll start his career with debt because of that choice, but not a crippling amount. Our second child is poised to make a different choice. Because what fits for one does not fit for the other.</p>
<p>^^^
The fact that it’s costing you about the same doesn’t apply to what I said. You got good aid which brought the cost down.</p>
<p>That said, an eng’g student doesn’t have to go to any ivy in order to not be the “smartest person in the room,” or not to have to work their butt off for a B. Engineering is very tough at most schools that offer it. There’s a reason why many eng’g students’ GPA’s are much lower than what they were in high school. For many in eng’g, college is when they’ve gotten their first B…or yes even C.</p>
<p>Eng’g isn’t some unique or odd major that only a small number of schools can offer a challenging program. Virtually any well-established school with eng’g can have a very good program that will weed out those who slept thru high school as fast as the first year.</p>
<p>I can’t imagine any non-affluent family (under $200k) paying a whole bunch for an ivy for engineering. That is just a total waste of money. </p>
<p>Well, there are 8 Ivy league schools full of students who can’t imagine going to Alabama even if it is free. There are students who pick the military academies for the free education in engineering, there are those who go to co-op schools but take 5-6 years.</p>
<p>Lots of choices, just make the one that’s right for you (your child).</p>
<p>^^^
And that’s totally fine. I wasn’t talking about all Ivy league students. Most of the ivies have smallish eng’g programs. The majority of students are in OTHER majors. </p>
<p>And, with the fab aid at the ivies, for many students, including eng’g students, going there can be quite cheap!!! I know someone from a good-income family who went for much cheaper than a CSU!</p>
<p>I am talking about engineering students whose non-rich parents are struggling to pay a “family contribution” that isnt’ easily affordable. In the case of the OP, she can’t afford her family contribution. Going to an ivy for eng’g in such cases is not necessary at all. </p>
<p>There are many fine programs that would be affordable for these students. No need for the parents to feel that they are short-changing their child (which is what the OP is struggling with…right??)</p>
<p>Yes, and certainly some students choose military academies or co-op schools to make things more affordable…that’s the point. Thank you!</p>
<p>^^^have you ever lived in New England? There are many families who won’t consider a southern school even it is was free and the only alternative was a very expensive school. Even for engineering.</p>
<p>I know someone who went to Alamaba (and her family’s income was probably north of $200k). Lasted one week. ONE week. It was just too culturally different for her, and too many racist comments. Based on her experience, I never considered Alabama, or Ole Miss or LA Tech for my daughter, who is also a minority and also an engineering major.</p>
<p>We’re making it work by cobbling together many different scholarships because I’m anti-loan. From what you’ve said, it doesn’t matter if she goes to Cornell or Alabama or UCI or MIT as long as she gets a chemical engineering degree, right?</p>
<p>This discussion isn’t southern school vs ivy. I wasn’t the one who suggested a southern school for the OP. It was after the OP mentioned that her child had been accepted to Bama with large merit that I suggested that they VISIT and see.</p>
<p>The point was that non-affluent parents who would struggle or go into DEBT to pay for a pricey top school for engineering should not feel guilty to have their child go elsewhere.</p>
<p>There are affordable engineering schools in nearly every region of the country… New Mexico, the Dakotas, Arizona, the south, Iowa and so forth.</p>
<p>From what you’ve said, it doesn’t matter if she goes to Cornell or Alabama or UCI or MIT as long as she gets a chemical engineering degree, right?</p>
<p>Yup! That’s my point. Thank you!</p>
<p>That said…I am from California. I haven’t live in the NE. I don’t know who that person was, but that is NOT a typical experience. With the school drawing from all 50 states and being so largely populated with OOS students, it’s not a “southern school.” </p>
<p>(oh and I know that the NE is so free of racism…lolololololol)</p>
<p>In the south and in the west, people are very friendly…lol. So, yes, that could be very shocking.</p>
<p>Very close friends of ours have had their kids in the south for college. These are folks that have gone to selective colleges in the NE and have the bias, but are looking at the situations anew with their kids. Good scholarships made the choice what they were. Right now some of the northernmost schools are not looking so good. They have to have a LOT of extra panache for kids to go there. </p>
<p>Saving $120K or more, which I have seen with some package differentials sounds pretty good to me. I’d be proud of any kids who could make it work. Yes, some can’t. Some have issues anywhere. But that kind of money can make a big difference in the quality of life for parents who are looking at retirement.</p>
<p>Perhaps, but we noticed a definite difference in the pace and level of instruction in introductory level courses between different schools where we had the opportunity to sit in on courses. </p>
<p>If it were true that OOS students found Bama shocking, then the Bama forum here on CC would have posts from students leaving or stating such. But, as I recall, there has been only one student (2-3 years ago) that did post that he was leaving after a semester. However, he suffered from moderate-to-severe depression and is attending a univ very close to his home. So, his situation wasn’t related to the school, it was related to his need to be close to family.</p>
<p>Instead, on the Bama forum, you will see many posts from people all over the country stating that they have not experienced “culture shock” beyond the school’s friendliness.</p>
<p>*Quote:
Sometimes, it’s not just about the money.
*</p>
<p>For those taking the PE exam…it is the SAME exam regardless of the college from which you graduate. Most engineering firms expect a level of skill and ability to think and process information. From there, they usually do their own training (says my husband, the engineer).</p>
<p>For what its worth, Cornell computes our family contribution LOWER than our FAFSA EFC (which is similar to the OP’s and which we could not afford to pay). This may be in part because we have very little equity in our primary home, which has gone down in value since we purchased. </p>
<p>Our only complaint about Cornell financial aid at this point is that my DH is self employed and his income is unpredictable and varies sometimes significantly from year to year. Cornell is much more willing to raise our contribution in a good year (sophomore) than to lower it back down in a poor year (junior). So beware of that if you have a variable income, as we do. They did lower our junior year contribution somewhat on appeal, but not as much as one would expect just comparing the numbers between our 3 years’ income/assets/family contributions.</p>
<p>Mathmomvt whatever Cornell calculates for your home equity in your primary home, FAfSA calculates it at less, zero, to be exact. It is possible to get an expected contribution from schools that is less than the FAFSA EFC, but it doesn’t happen often. And, yes, what you have noted is often the case from what I’ve heard. Also schools do expect more in student contributions each year, and the costs go up. Something those who are going to barely squeak by in the first year shoud consider.</p>
<p>Right. FAFSA doesn’t count home equity…even if it’s a million dollars!</p>
<p>*For what its worth, Cornell computes our family contribution LOWER than our FAFSA EFC *</p>
<p>Super! And in cases like this, it can be a no-brainer. For many, that is the case. That can be the beauty of schools that give super need-based aid.</p>
<p>For others who have unaffordable family contributions, there are other options that will work…and have worked for student after student after student.</p>
<p>My understanding, though, is that most schools’ institutional methodologies give a higher asset protection limit than FAFSA, and since our primary home doesn’t go into that, it covers some of our other assets. </p>
<p>My point is that many people’s Profile-based contribution is higher because they have lots of equity in their homes, which gets counted there, and since we don’t that part isn’t a factor for us, and there are some other parts of the Profile formula (a guess, since we don’t know any school’s formula, but based on the Kalman Chaney book Paying For College Without Going Broke) that may be more favorable for many families, and we get the benefit of those without the disadvantage of having lots of home equity counted.</p>
<p>As for the student contribution going up, that has been no problem, as my DS has had great paid internships each summer, and has been easily able to make his higher student contributions as well as paying off some of his earlier loans.</p>
<p>Yes, if the family contribution had not been affordable, we wouldn’t have even visited. We didn’t visit prior to applying for a few reasons, primarily logistical but also not wanting him to fall in love before knowing if he would get in and be able to afford it.</p>
<p>*If it were true that OOS students found Bama shocking, then the Bama forum here on CC would have posts from students leaving or stating such. But, as I recall, there has been only one student (2-3 years ago) that did post that he was leaving after a semester. *</p>
<p>But if the student only stayed one semester, or didn’t even enroll at all because she felt uncomfortable, would she even post on the school specific forum? This girl just wanted out and didn’t look back. It’s easy for someone in the majority to say ‘everyone is so friendly and nice’ but the minorities might not feel that way.</p>
<p>I realize my sample size is one, but my daughter also only has one chance at picking a college for freshman year, so she IS going to consider the experience of her friend. Also, the sororities at Alabama are still segregated. This is not what she wants in a college experience. She doesn’t want everything to be a fight for acceptance at every single step.</p>
<p>After living in a lot of places that are more accepting of our racially mixed family, we now live in the south. Our experience, and again it is a sample size of one (but the only one that matters, us) has been that there is still a lot of work to be done in the south before there is equality or acceptance. Separate but not-so-equal still reigns. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t borrow thousands or hundreds of thousands to go to a big name school if there is an alternative, but if others want to, let them. However, they can’t them complain that school is too expensive or their loans should be waived.</p>
<p>I visited a lot of OOS schools where I just didn’t like the culture. I didn’t post a single thread (and I’ve been active on here since I was a sophomore in high school) about it.</p>