<p>I agree with you jlauer. I see a lot of depression in women in their early twenties who have been experimenting with casual sex. In this month’s Atlantic, Caitlin Flanagan writes, “I think that girls are vulnerable to great damage through the kind of sex in which they are, as individuals, as valueless and unrecognizable as chattel. Society. . . has refused to assert–or even to acknowlege–that female sexuality is as intricately connected to kindness and trust as it is to gratification and pleasure. I’ts in the nature of who we are.”</p>
<p>Baseball mom: That book is great! it proves the point that women feel committed to and love men that they have sex with EVEN though the men feel little or no love or commitment to them. To these guys, these gals are just “the flavor of the month” and they are waiting (holding out) to see what next month’s flavor is. </p>
<p>However, I don’t think the book really makes the “un p.c.” point that most of these pathetic girls in the story wouldn’t be in their situations if they hadn’t had sex so quickly before the men had a chance to fall madly in love with them. When sex occurs early in a relationship, the man misses the early stages of “falling in love” . The early stages is when men find out what they have in common, which makes him want to commit to the woman. Early, casual sex gets in the way of that stage.</p>
<p>Now I need to get back to work… I’ll check the responses later.</p>
<p>I think there is a difference between- a large difference between having a casual relationship that includes sex, when you are not in a longterm committed relationship and extramarital sex. </p>
<p>I don’t think there is anything wrong with young people who are not ready to commit to a long term emotional relationship, yet still want to experience the pleasures of the opposite sex, whether that means a full physical relationship, or less so, whatever the couple agrees upon.</p>
<p>For young women who are depressed after having casual sex, that suggests that they are going against their core beliefs, for whatever reason, I don’t know. I do think that women need to take it slower and reevaluate with their partner whether they want to continue the physical relationship.
If they can’t have that communication, that seems to be an indication that it isn’t a safe relationship.</p>
<p>The expectations from Casual Sex for women can cause problems. Its not the sex itself, it could be, for some, the expectation of a further relationship, even though that guy is giving signals that it is just casual, that it can be more than that, and those “hopes and dreams” often lead to frustration</p>
<p>some of my most interesting relationships were with men that I never would have seriously dated- if serious means with an eye towards a long term permanent relationship
with a young man whom was not only a Republician but subscribed to soldier of fortune magazine for example. We had some interesting conversations 
( he worked on a tug that went between Hawaii and seattle- the tan in the middle of winter was * most* attractive)</p>
<p>citygirlsmom: you are exactly right… and MANY guys give the impression that they “really like” or even “love” the girl in order to “smooth way into her pants.” I would be rich if I had a dollar for everytime a friend, sister, cousin, etc, told me that they had early sex with some “great guy” and then either never heard from the guy again or they split shortly thereafter – even though the guy made the girl feel/thing that they had something “special” between them.</p>
<p>WHAT about STDs??? Many guys won’t wear a “raincoat” (ohhhhh it just doesn’t feel as gooooood…) </p>
<p>And any girl with a “high sex drive” that seeks casual sex is “using” guys just as badly as guys who do the same. </p>
<p>And, when engaging in sex which you think is “mutually casual” is risky --No one can ever be sure what their casual sex partner is thinking (he/she may want it to be more or, heck, he/she could be some crazy nut who won’t leave you alone later. Or in recent cases of missing/killed teens, the “casual lover” can by sociopathic murderer.</p>
<p>There is just no good reason to engage in casual “hook ups,” sex or whatever you want to call it.</p>
<p>I am warning my soon-to-be-freshman son about predatory girls. This is something I never thought about until a few years ago, and I’m guessing mothers of the past did not warn their sons in this way.
What I’m talking about are girls who are needy or homesick or whatever, and want to get my (obviously inexperienced) son in bed so that they can gain some power in this new situation. Lots of opportunity for the in-bed thing, and suddenly my son is crazy in love, and it lasts for a month or two and then the girl decides she’s sick of having someone follow her around, and breaks it off. It doesn’t mean much to her because she’s been through it before. It’s almost like a game, something she can brag about to her friends, but my son is absolutely devastated, unable to function or go to class.</p>
<p>Well I have to respond if you don’t want to have casual sex don’t- but IMO you can’t imply a long term relationship protects you, because it doesn’t anymore than restricting legal relationships to the heterosexual, in some way “protects” the sanctity of that committment
Why are Brittany Spears relationships, more valid than Elton Johns?</p>
<p>Yes putting your safety in the hands of someone you don’t really know, can be very dangerous. I would never advise anyone to get in a car with or go home with a stranger. That hasn’t been what I am talking about.
However recent studies show women killed every year are more than twice as likely to be killed by husbands or boyfriends than strangers.</p>
<p>Neither Brittany nor Elton’s relationships are desirable or admirable. Brittany’s “hubby” has two kids from a previous relationship and he “hooked up” with Brittany while the “other relationship” was pregnant with his second child. It’s only a matter of time when he moves on to his next conquest, and when that time comes, he’ll leave with a pocket full of green. </p>
<p>SuNa: Me too!!! The bottom line is that the book, “He’s just not into you” NEVER would have been written, published and popular if it wasn’t soooooooooooooo true. Most women are “wired” to want a commitment with the men they are “involved with”. The women who aren’t wired as such, well… let’s just say we’ve advised our sons that those women are to avoided because they would never be marriage material – they aren’t the women that they would want raising their daughters and we wouldn’t want them raising our granddaughters.</p>
<p>This thread has gotten truly entertaining!!!</p>
<p>SuNa–you’ve pronounced your son heartsick and failing, and he hasn’t even gotten to college yet.</p>
<p>Jlauer–so, have you designed a wiring detector, or can you just tell?</p>
<p>Most people, thank the lord, are just so much more complicated, weird, inconsistent, maddening, wonderful, changing, confused, and hard to pin down than anyone here is giving them credit for …and overall, thank the good lord, way more interesting!!! (Britney excepted, of course)</p>
<p>But keep going, this is fascinating!</p>
<p>I was speaking of Brittanys Las Vegas marriage actually- I haven’t really followed her other entanglements</p>
<p>and actually I have been married to my husband for 25 years this spring-my 1st husband incidentally- :)</p>
<p>I havent really followed Sir Eltons career that close since he split up with Bernie Taupin, but I did note his recent celebration with his longtime partner David Furnish ( almost 19 years)</p>
<p>Im also wondering what interest in sex has to do with raising children. Obviously the ability to concieve has nothing to do with your skill in being a parent, but the reverse isn’t true either, interest in the act that precedes conception, doesn’t mean you will be a bad parent</p>
<p>garland: what are you talking about?? a wiring detector?? for what? my husband??</p>
<p>Emerald: i also have no idea what the point of your last paragraph is … please clarify</p>
<p>Emerald, also: it sounds like you have a right to be annoyed at your “hypocrite” mother-in-law, but don’t let your annoyance get in the way of seeing the short-term and long-term dangers of the current ridiculously casual sexual activity that is going on between young adults.</p>
<p>Jlauer:this–</p>
<p>“Most women are “wired” to want a commitment with the men they are “involved with”. The women who aren’t wired as such, well… let’s just say we’ve advised our sons that those women are to avoided because they would never be marriage material”</p>
<p>is what I was refering to.</p>
<p>Emerald: i also have no idea what the point of your last paragraph is … please clarify
I was responding to this statement</p>
<p>let’s just say we’ve advised our sons that those women are to avoided because they would never be marriage material – they aren’t the women that they would want raising their daughters and we wouldn’t want them raising our granddaughters.</p>
<p>Our legal system requires men to accept the responsibilities of fatherhood whether they are ready (financially, emotionally, etc) or not – and whether the child is the result of a one night stand or not. </p>
<p>Maybe some/most of you have been lucky enough to be casually sexually active and haven’t had an unplanned pregnancy (or STD), but that is not true for many. And since we don’t know ahead of time which group we’ll fall into (lucky or unlucky) when we’re promiscuous, then its a risky road to travel… (Actually, MANY young women have STDs and don’t know it AND they won’t know it until later when they are married and trying to get pregnant.)</p>
<p>Garland, do you think it is hard to tell which is which…I don’t think it is; it doesn’t take any “special equiptment.”.</p>
<p>
Advise away - though of course they may just make up their own minds about what constitutes “marriage material.”</p>
<p>Whatever happened to raising daughters and sons to be ladies and gentlemen with some self-restraint? Instead we are acting as if they all HAVE to be a bunch of out of hormone-control sex addicts needing their next fix – and that fix can be anybody (hey, all girls (or boys) look the same in the dark…).</p>
<p>Luckily, since both are boys are cute hotties (blond, green eyes, tan with the cutest dimples! They don’t look like either of us!!!), we already see the types of girls they “go for.” They are completely turned off by loose girls who will be with just anybody. I know the girls that they spend time with and they are not sluts.</p>