You’re right, that’s hyperbole right there, fer sure.
Thankfully, it doesn’t change the nature of what we are talking about.
Healthcare is the US was very good before ACA - but for just some. Not so good for many others. When I hear others waxing nostalgic about the pre-ACA days, I wonder if they ever think about those who couldn’t afford and lived fearful of economic disaster from illness, those who lost the employer-provided insurance when they lost/laid-off from the job, those with pre-existing conditions, etc. Yes, it was very good for some of us pre-ACA. Now it is better for many,many others. And that’s a good thing.
When you’ve known the healthcare sector for decades, you can’t really think of quality as being different pre/post-ACA.
Citizens only? Residents too?
For President, Senators and Congressmen, and the top 1%
In Canada, citizens and permanent residents are covered. Visitors are not covered.
@alwaysamom You are perhaps lucky. From your avatar I assume that you are in the GTA. Things aren’t so easy in Quebec:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-s-doctor-shortage-slowly-improving-1.2786742
@lasma Is the CTV also a “right” wing" organization?
Here is another comparison between the US and Canada, and a few other rich countries:
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.PUBL.ZS
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.PRIV.ZS
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS
Country Spending on heath care as % of GDP, 2013
Public Private Total
Canada 7.6% 3.3% 10.9%
United States 8.1% 9.0% 17.1%
Australia 6.3% 3.2% 9.4%
France 9.0% 2.6% 11.7%
Germany 8.7% 2.6% 11.3%
Switzerland 7.6% 3.9% 11.5%
United Kingdom 7.6% 1.5% 9.1%
As we can see from the above, the socialized (public/government) health care costs are actually greater (as a percentage of GDP) in the US than in Canada, and roughly comparable to other rich countries. But the benefits of such socialized health care spending accrue only to a portion of the population in the US (Medicare is the biggest group, followed by Medicaid), versus the entire citizenry in the other countries. As a consequence, private and total health care spending (as a percentage of GDP) is much higher in the US.
Actually, when it comes to health care, you don’t get what you pay for. At least, the US doesn’t. Our total healthcare bill is far far higher than any other country on earth. But at least you’d expect that our health is far better than anyone else’s, yes? As it turns out, no:
[U.S</a>. Healthcare Ranked Dead Last Compared To 10 Other Countries](U.S. Healthcare Ranked Dead Last Compared To 10 Other Countries)
For the life of me, I can’t understand why some Americans cling so fiercely to a system which is demonstrably inferior to every other system in the developed world.
https://www.cms.gov/research-statistics-data-and-systems/statistics-trends-and-reports/nationalhealthexpenddata/nhe-fact-sheet.html shows some more information on health care spending in the US. Yearly spending per person in 2013:
$9,255 per person overall
In 2010:
$3,628 per child (25% of population, 13% of health care spending)
$6,125 per working age person (62% of population, 53% of health care spending)
$18,424 per person age 65 or older (13% of population, 34% of health care spending)
^^ Note that @ucbalumnus’ figures above ($9,255 per person, $18,424 per person 65 and above, etc.) count TOTAL health care spending. That includes money spent by individuals (health insurance premiums, copays, health expenses not covered by insurance, etc.), by businesses (health insurance premiums, payments by companies that self-insure, etc.) and by government (Medicare, Medicaid, subsidies, etc.).
About a quarter of National Health Expenditures in the US is federal government spending, and the rest isn’t.
https://www.cms.gov/research-statistics-data-and-systems/statistics-trends-and-reports/nationalhealthexpenddata/nhe-fact-sheet.html says 26% national government and 17% state and local governments, for a total of 43%. There is a slight discrepency from the World Bank numbers linked to from reply #46, which show 47% from public (government) sources.
In my experience and that of my family, friends and acquaintances, I’ve never heard of anyone waiting any length of time for needed procedures, surgery or care. No one I know has had to suffer pain or worry waiting for a diagnostic test.
I don’t see the compassion of the Canadian system when those who can’t afford anything else have to wait months and months in pain, losing work, and living in fear that a disease will worsen before they can even see the doctor. Those who can afford it come to the U. S.
My mother-in-law broke her leg in France. Had superb care at a local hospital, and was given they most stylish crutches you’ve ever seen. (Honest, they look like modern art.) Anyway, she got home to the U.S. – and couldn’t get an appointment with a doctor for the next three weeks.
In the US we pay, pay and pay – and still wait. I’ll take single-payer, please.
@ucbalumnus, thanks for your correction to #49. I quickly edited it, just under the 15 minute correction window, but didn’t have time to note that I had made a correction.
(I originally said 26% of NHE was government spending, but ucbalumnus pointed out that 26% was federal government spending and there was also state and local spending to account for.)
@TomSrOfBoston. Yes, I’m in the GTA. I do have family members in Quebec, though, so I know of the challenges there, in many areas of life, not just healthcare. As much as I love the province, I’d never want to live there.
I consider that I “know” our @romanigypsyeyes, so I can’t make that statement.
Two thoughts: 1) non Americans do think our system is nuts, frightening, because all people can’t get basic care, Their expectations are fundamentally different. 2) I have lived both here and where there is national health care. Abroad, I felt like a floor was set on care. Everybody got care, people participated vigorously in the well check ups, like well baby care, but I did think the care was cookie cutter. An educated person, I was given advice that wasn’t always appropriate to my situation and so went outside the national system for private advice. The big example I offer is breast feeding. I wanted to nurse as long as possible. Luckily, my baby stayed on the weight charts and no national well baby nurse suggested I supplement. However, I did contact a lactation consultant for support, and through her met other women who were told to stop nursing and go immediately to formula if the baby fell slightly behind the weight charts. I was also more relaxed about introducing solid food and didn’t worry about the rigid guidelines given. The national system was lacking in flexibility.
All babies got screened for metabolic and developmental disorders and got their vaccinations, which was great, but all babies also got weaned on the same schedule and had to be bundled up all the time. (I forgot about this one. We had heated floors and our apartment was plenty warm. I dressed the baby like I dressed myself. The nurses did not like that and wanted babies much more bundled up----most people did not live in such warm apartments. )
To echo CF, I had to wait well over a year for a gall bladder removal because I didn’t have insurance. By the time I got insurance, I had to go through a whole full-stomach procedure because my gall bladder was rupturing.
So please, don’t anyone start that crap about not having delayed medical care in our system. If you don’t know anyone that has ever delayed major (or even minor) procedures because of lack of resources is in a VERY, very privileged position.
Oh, and I detailed all this on a thread a while back when it was going on so if I’m lying, it’s a damn committed lie.
My experience has been quite different. Doctors I know used to take charity cases ( before ACA). Now with the subsidies etc. they’ve stopped. There is also the county hospital.
There is no compassion for a government to limit needed care while doctors go unemployed and ORs go unused.
Rom’s experience was before the ACA took place. She is sitting right here telling you that she had to wait a year to get care because she didn’t have insurance, because she couldn’t afford it. I think you should believe her.
Also, TatinG, how many people do you know who didn’t have insurance before ACA? If you didn’t know anyone who didn’t have insurance, then you couldn’t have known anyone who didn’t have insurance and had to wait to get medical care.