Can't decide between CSUN or UCD for mechanical engineering

College Majors Engineering Majors
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UC Davis or CSUN, seems like it should be simple enough since we’re talking about a school with prestige vs a school generally known to be barely a step above CC, especially when the cost isn’t an issue, but here’s my situation…

Im a huge hobbiest, I’ve got a garage full of tools and absolutely love working on and competing my track car, and find metal fabrication therapeutic. I also enjoy my job as a mechanic where I’ve got a boss that treats me with respect. Basically, I decided to go into ME because I like building things, and I’m decent in math/science; not because I’m good at math/science and wanted to apply it. In addition, I’ve got a good living situation renting out a roomy house with good friends. Naturally, I took a huge interest in the formula programs UCD and CSUN offers where they design, build, and race low-division formula cars.

I visited both campuses and found the following:
UCD: more/nice equipment,

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Sorry, on a tablet and I’m having issues editing, please look at my updated post:

Applied to cal poly SLO (first choice), UC Davis, and CSUN. Got into UCD and CSUN, seems like it should be simple enough since we’re talking about a school with prestige vs a school generally known to be barely a step above CC, especially when the cost isn’t an issue, but here’s my situation…

Im a huge hobbiest, I’ve got a garage full of tools and absolutely love working on and competing my track car, and find metal fabrication therapeutic. I also enjoy my job as a mechanic where I’ve got a boss that treats me with respect. Basically, I decided to go into ME because I like building things, and I’m decent in math/science; not because I’m good at math/science and wanted to apply it. In addition, I’ve got a good living situation renting out a roomy house with good friends that’s driving distance from CSUN. Naturally, I took a huge interest in the formula programs UCD and CSUN offers where they design, build, and race low-division formula cars. I would also like to note that I’m currently transferring from a CC after getting all my lower devision out of the way, and am getting frustrated with the fact that I’ve been primarily solving book problems for the past 3 years. I want to go into automotive or manufacturing, and am strongly considering leaving CA after school.

I visited both campuses and found that a lot of what I read online is correct. UCD seemed to have students who are very smart but have never turned a wrench in their life, has more things to offer, and is overall nicer. CSUN is more of a working mans college, and I found myself feeling much more comfortable here; I kinda had a feeling that I would enjoy the teaching style more, and found like I could find myself becoming very good friends with some of the people. The only specific thing I’d like to add is the formula program, which is a huge factor in my decision, is much better funded at CSUN; and when I visited the programs at CSUN everybody was working on the car, while at UCD everyone was on their computer which obviously turned me off of Davis.

Anyways… I feel like I’m rambling on so I’d just like some input on if UCD would be a better investment in my future – would I make more money? Would I have an issue finding a job after graduating from CSUN?

Also, am I better off going to the school that I felt at home at? Or should I uproot my life and take the opportunity to go somewhere that has more to offer, and of elevated quality? My gut says go with CSUN, esecially since I’m dying to learn and apply practical knowledge, but then I feel like an idiot for wanting to throw away an opportunity to go somewhere I was lucky to get into. It’s basically an issue between going to the better school, or going to the school that’ll fit me better.

I know it’s lengthy, but this is a huge decision for me and I really appreciate you reading through it all!

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I’m a big proponent of going with your gut. In the end it’s more about what you do than it is about where you go. Good luck!

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If you continue to do the same things, you will continue to get the same results. Edison was well-funded and persistent. It is fine to be a “bench engineer.” However, you have rare skills and talents, and with the right mentor to add additional tools to your toolkit, you could reduce the required funding and persistence. You have the makings of a great engineer.

What if you could zero in on design changes quickly that would optimize your car, then go out and fire up an arc-welder to try it out that evening? Wouldn’t that be a powerful combination? You may get there either way, but one definition of an engineer is someone who can do for $100 in a week what anyone could do for $1,000, after a fashion and with enough time. The closest to this ideal for you would be to learn the theory and discipline at a research institution and marry it with your native hands-on skills.

I am a proponent of complementing a team and adding in the missing ingredient. You have a great opportunity to really shape the UC Davis program through your skills and leadership, and in turn gain a lot of growth in the process.

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That all assumes he’d be giving up something by going to Northridge and not Davis. I’m certainly not convinced that is the case. Davis is a strong program, but he’ll be taught more by graduate students and face far larger classes that he would at Northridge.

In the end it’s simply more about what you do than where you go. I’ll back that up with an interesting anecdote. I know a gent, a dual math and physics PhD who managed a very famous NASA program. When he found out my son wanted to be an engineer he said, “Let me tell you a little secret. It doesn’t matter where he goes to school. All that matters is that he have a high level of curiosity and interest in solving problems.” He was a CalTech prof and JPL employee who had the clout to pull engineers and pure scientists from anywhere in the world to his project. He said some of his best engineers went to Podunk U. He said they were less mentally constrained by “book knowledge.” His quote “There were no books to read about what we were doing. That stuff had never been done. We wrote them when it was over.”

So, as your handle says, it’s just a school.
:wink:

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All true, @eyemgh. I have seen many many people pigeonholed by school attended, as the person in your anecdote implied. It speaks to approach. Some schools turn out great trial-and-error engineers who understand the theory from the perspective of guiding the direction of their next hunch. They are great contributors and often just what is needed. However, they will unlikely become system architects, defining the direction of a program and giving the zero-th order preliminary design approach.

Others are great theorists, perceiving design optimization from computer models and simulations. They will miss some really obvious design details and approaches by not having the hands-on experience.

The OP has a golden ticket- he already has this in-the-trenches perspective and ability to execute. He will not lose it. Marrying it to a more theoretical mindset (more “ready-aim-fire” than “ready-fire-aim”) will give him the best of both worlds and make him highly sought after.

In the end, his decision is very tough because there is really no wrong answer. He will be fine with either path. However, if he goes to UC Davis, he will likely have more whole-system opportunities, where he can define direction and overall approach, as his career progresses.

He may have more camaraderie and less pressure if he makes a different choice. I think the OP’s values can drive the decision. However cheap rent with buddies and a great job with a great boss are short-term influencers to a lifetime decision.

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thanks for the replies!

itsjustschool: I’ve never thought of it that way, you make a very good point, and I would absolutely love to be that kind of engineer. However, I can force myself to do something that’ll be over quickly, let’s say getting a shot from the doctor, just for the end result… But I’m not sure if I’m going to be able to see it through 2 years if I’m not happy. I’d be lying if I said I’ve never been frustrated enough with my classes to consider changing my major. In addition, I get much more out of a class that I enjoy, typically I find myself doing the bare minimum to pass when the class doesn’t keep me stimulated. Granted, there’s also the question if I’m actually going to enjoy CSUN classes more than UCD.

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Again, your assumption presumes he’ll get something at Davis that he would not get at Northridge. I’m not necessarily believing that to be true. As the father of a student at the nation’s prototype “learn by doing” school, Cal Poly, I’ve yet to see any evidence that he’s lacking anything on the theory side. What will the OP get from Davis that he won’t get from Northridge other than hype? This is not a retorical question. I do not know the answer.

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just saw the most recent replies, really good points, and I really like the quote :wink: from what I saw in my visits, Davis will likely help me hone in on the areas that I’m lacking; but my concern comes in when I realize that it may backfire in that if it causes me to lose my passion. On the other hand, the instructors may be good enough to help me understand the theories I’ve had issues with in CC. Overall though, it just seems like CSUN is the safe bet while Davis is riskier but could yield better results.

From my visit, I don’t necessarily think that I’ll be getting anything more from Davis, just something different, as mentioned earlier just a different way to see things and a very powerful tool to keep. But my issue comes in where, metaphorically, my tool box may not be willing to accommodate the tool. I could tell that the way the students approach problems is dramatically different. Specifically the formula team, at CSUN they had a few old cars that the lead designer showed me - most were initially designed by discussions from a group of people who are all engineers and have background in building track cars, and you could tell their design progressed based off their experiences with past cars and how they performed at the track. While at Davis they spent the majority of their time designing the car and we’re currently scrambling to get it built. Like I mentioned, they were all on their computers when I got there. As a generality, I feel as though the CSUN car was built with a whiteboard and a group of engineers collaborating, and the Davis car was built using calculus and simulations.

Also, any input on if there’s a significant difference in job availability and wages between the two? A Google search seemed to show that they’re extremely comparable in these regards, but some more evidence wouldn’t hurt.

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Here’s another thought… I get my bachelors from CSUN, spend some time in the field, and if I feel that I want to improve on my theory, I can go back to school for my masters. I wasn’t ever planning on getting a masters, but there is a third option on the table.

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@dth1215, there was a great quote on a recent NOVA program by a JPL engineer. He said, and I’m paraphrasing, “Engineers don’t have to find the RIGHT answer, they have to find the just right enough answer.” In the case of SAE that’s measured simply by who wins.

For my own edification, not knowing much about Northridge other than having looked over their curriculum, what do you feel Davis offers that CSUN doesn’t? After all, Statics, Dynamics, Thermodynamics, etc. are all fairly similar no matter where you go. Just curious.

BTW, there are some advantages of “going away” to school. You’ll grow as a person in ways you simply won’t if you’re at home.

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I realize the knowledge will be very similar, and I feel as though if I become unhappy with Davis that what I extract from the classes would be even less. On the other hand, Davis can offer me the ability to use a larger array of equipment, although that’s nothing that wouldn’t be available at where-ever my future career is. More so, it’d just teach me a whole new way of approaching problems, and the professors can answer some of the difficult questions that I sometimes haven’t been able to get an immediate answer for from my CC professors. But as I mentioned earlier I have a feeling that I may end up just coping horribly, in that the stacking of a significantly stronger theoretical approach to problems that are now upper devision may be overwhelming. It may just be too much to learn at once unless I plan on stretching it to 3 years.

Very true on the moving away, although I might go crazy too :wink: since I would have to give up most of my hobbies if I were to relocate to Davis.

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Since I have a son attending UCD (not Engineering), I am slightly biased but you should go where you will be the most happy personally and academically. If that is CSUN, then go for it. It sounds like you know what you want and will succeed at any school you choose. Good Luck

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I visited UC Davis when I was looking at colleges 13 years ago. Personally, I don’t understand the allure of the school to many kids, but to each their own. The campus, student culture, and local area seemed rather bland to me.

Nevertheless, it is a decent school for engineering and I believe you will be served well at either CSUN or UC Davis. Pick whichever school speaks to you more.

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Toys are cool for sure. It’s easy to tell which schools have them and which ones don’t. What’s not easy to tell is which ones give the keys to undergrads and which ones don’t.

As for “stacking of a significantly stronger theoretical approach,” We’re not talking engineering vs. engineering technology. We are comparing two ABET accredited ME curricula (see below). Certainly the pace may differ school to school and the quality of instruction may differ also, but in the final analysis there are basic principles that you have to learn. They are not easy or void of “theory” no matter where you go. Again, this is not a rhetorical question. I don’t honestly know the answer. Why do you feel Davis has a “stronger theoretical approach”? How will you look at problems differently with a Davis education vs. a Northridge education?

Using the only model I know fairly intimately, Cal Poly, I’ll give you an example where two classes might differ and how based on the “hands on” approach. Vibrations is for all practical purposes just an applied math class. It’s virtually the same no matter where you take it. You learn the math (the “theory” if you will) at Poly, at Berkeley at Caltech and at MIT. Cal Poly does not short the theory, they add a component, a lab. Most schools aren’t fortunate enough to have fully functional stand alone vibrations lab facilities. You don’t get any less of anything by having the lab.

Look at the curriculum maps. CSUN is not going to be easy. Davis does have a bit more math. Linear algebra is not an ABET requirement, but would be a useful elective if you go to CSUN.

Again, I’m not saying one is better than the other, just that one might be a better fit for you than the other. That is very important.

Good luck!

http://mae.ucdavis.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/EMEC-Map14151.pdf

http://www.csun.edu/sites/default/files/meflowchart.pdf

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Both schools will teach you theory, so this will not happen:

You will not feel inadequate with either path.

It is more of a mindset. Professors at UC tend to be more “big-picture” and are sought out as consultants by industry to set up/stage problems. You would likely learn to approach a problem by thoroughly understanding the requirements and then methodically modeling systems and subsystems. A top-down approach.

CSU is more likely to approach a problem by trying to make a part of it work, and then building on that- more bottoms-up.

I went to school before the turn of the century, and the former approach was a time-saver, and I preferred it. With the advent of 3-D printing and Maker spaces, the gap has considerably shrunk. For many things, rapid prototyping and iterating designs may now be a better approach than thorough analysis prior to committing to hardware.

In both approaches, you will need to thoroughly understand the theory. It is just how you approach a problem and apply that theory that may be different.

Now is the time to make a table of pros and cons.

If you go to UCD, I would really plan on 3 years, and I would make a plan of what I want to get out of it and what courses/professors I want. Take the institutional flowchart or map and make one for yourself, then harmonize the two. Be clear. It is a culture shock, and you will likely have a period of not liking it. It will likely take 3 years to get the level of “belonging” to get the opportunities and the letters of recommendation. CSUN is local to you and less of a culture shock. You could more easily get out of there in 2 years, but it is less likely to change you- to is more likely that you will incrementally increase your factual knowledge and capability and less likely that you will change your fundamental outlook.

To me, if you want opportunities where you influence the product- you learn to tell a compelling story and back it up with simulations, I would prefer UCD; if you want to be part of a team developing and producing interesting stuff, I would not. That is an oversimplification and is very biased- of course it is only as true as any generality can be.

Also, CSUN tends to have regional influence- San Fernando Valley, Pasadena, LA; whereas employers statewide look to UCD.

As I said before, it is a tough decision because there is no wrong path. Either will result in success.

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So after much thought, and looking at the curriculum I decided to go with CSUN. The curriculum has more appeal to me. However, the main thing that weighed my decision, realizing that my pros/cons table was nearly neck and neck, is that I will likely make more connections at CSUN. In a situation where I can’t decide, I realized that there is the factor of connections; and at a school that was earlier (and IMO, correctly) described as bland, I don’t see myself naturally making a lot of connections.

I really appreciate all of your replies, and they were extremely helpful. Although it didn’t entirely make my decision a whole lot easier, I feel a heck of a lot more confident with my decision and feel as though I have a much firmer grasp on what to expect. Seems like this is a really good community here, and I’m glad I decided to post up my dilemma. Thank you everyone for your time!

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Remember, it’s mostly about what you do, not where you go. Make the most of your opportunity, don’t forget to have a bit of fun and you’ll do great.