<p>I have the solution - create colleges in these lovely vacation spots, and run classes only when the tourist trade is low. Degree in 5-6 years, but work available when kids are free. Who wouldn’t want to go there?</p>
<p>They can’t get jobs “for the summer” because the kids (and colleges) define the summer as too short or too unpredictably. The state department of labor, in issuing the certification necessary to apply for the H2B, has to confirm that this is in fact the case. Your beef then is with the colleges, and the kids, not with the visa process or the employers.</p>
<p>I worked my way through college doing hotel food service - 80 hours a week. I always made like two bucks an hour and had to pay for my food and board (and kickbacks to the maitre d’). I made REALLY good money. </p>
<p>But the kicker always was that I had to start going up to the hotels on weekends staring in April. The work was really hard, and over time, fewer and fewer parents would allow their kid to do it, and it interfered with their school work, and fewer college students applied. Within 10 years, it was all H2B visas.</p>
<p>Sorry, I’m still unconvinced that seasonal “resort” businesses should be given the H2B break at the expense of “locals.” Why is it that some people are allowed to UNFAIRLY manipulate supply and demand. If the businesses need workers, they should be willing to pay a potential worker enough to make it worth her while. I don’t wish these businesses to fail, but let’s stop the charade that absolutely no locals or citizens, including college kids, will take such jobs. Of course many job seekers will decline such work if the pay is too low. And in my opinion, the “back-to-school” argument isn’t as critical as some folks make it out to be. The summer season (or at least the highest demand of the season) tends to cease after Labor Day. Seasonal restaurants and hotels aren’t making the majority of their income in mid-September and thereafter. This brings to mind Microsoft, whom kept the wages of software programers in the U.S. lower than what would be paid because of the large numbers of VISA grantees sponsored by the company. What, there were few numbers of qualified U.S. citizen who are programmers?</p>
<p>I grew up on Cape Cod and I also disagree, LakeWashington. The seasonal jobs are very difficult to fulfill. Some other posters suggested that kids and students don’t want to work; that’s very untrue for the Cape. Almost everyone I knew growing up started working full time during the summers when they turned 14 or 15. (There are a lot of jobs available for teenagers. There’s not a problem with workers from overseas “taking” jobs from local seasonal workers.) Tourist season lasts late on the Cape because the region stays warmer later into the fall because of the ocean. The season is essentially May - early October. Though the busiest times are July and the middle of the summer, you can’t just hire workers for the busiest two months of a five-month tourist season. Many businesses need a number of workers available full-time and during the day. Students simply can’t fulfill that need. I don’t think pay is the issue at all when it comes to student labor.</p>
<p>I don’t think Lake Washington wants to be confused by the facts. I’m another who lives in an area where seasonality is critical. And the season goes into October, whether LW thinks that’s the time for the “majority of [their] income” or not. These businesses cannot be hiring and training a different crew for the shoulder month(s) and still run an efficient business. </p>
<p>My S has worked in two seasonal businesses while in HS, but it is very hard on the small business owners when the kids go back to school, or - yes - start their pre-season soccer practice or whatever. </p>
<p>In the resort businesses around here, these H2B employees work side-by-side with local kids and local citizens. Their presence makes it possible for the businesses to function economically and thrive… and create positions for locals, and bring money into the local economy.</p>
<p>Oh I see, Jmmom. So you’re arguing essentially that the business model for some seasonal hospitality/restaurant business is flawed. In other words, they can’t make money given the local labor market if they have to meet the market cost for labor (like they are doing now, in the absence of H2B immigrants). In other words, H2B visa holders “…makes it possible for the businesses to function economically and thrive” by paying low wages.</p>
<p>I meant to say ‘by paying ARTIFICIALLY low wages.’</p>
<p>You can pay HIGH wages and have a shortage of labor. That takes place every year in the Washington cherry harvest. Individuals can make up to $25 an hour, for a short burst of time (3-4 weeks). There are tens of thousands of unemployed or underemployed folks within 150 miles. They simply won’t take the jobs. The timing is bad; the work is too hard; they just don’t see it as “worth it”.</p>
<p>Individuals can make up to $25 an hour, for a short burst of time (3-4 weeks)</p>
<p>what do they have to do for that, pick 200 buckets a day?</p>
<p>I can’t imagine why someone working a 9 to 5 job wouldnt give it up to pick cherries for three weeks. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>
[Outfront[/url</a>]</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/375125_farmworker15.html]State”>http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/375125_farmworker15.html]State</a> farmworkers face low quality of life, study finds](<a href=“http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/1999/11/outfront.html]Outfront[/url”>Outfront – Mother Jones)</p>
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<p>LakeWashington - who are you envisioning will take these May-October seasonal jobs? Local citizens who will leave their permanent jobs for the seasonal work? High school and college students who will just get a little dispensation from their schools to start two months late and leave a few weeks early each school year? Unemployed locals who will jump at the opportunity if only given the type of salaries you envision? (If it is this latter group, what is your evidence that such a pool of potential workers exists in these seasonal markets?)</p>
<p>BTW, a reasonable number (I don’t know the percentage) of these jobs involve relocating for the 6 months involved, leaving family behind, and living on site. How do you figure that will all work? </p>
<p>No, I don’t think the model is flawed. I don’t have any problem - at all - with immigrants coming to this country to work. That’s what my ancestors did.</p>
<p>Several of us have pointed out flaws in your reasoning (mini in post #16 re taking away jobs from locals; mini, corranged and I re the summer calendar of students vs. the seasonal calendar of these businesses). I am wondering why you have ignored these issues.</p>
<p>“I can’t imagine why someone working a 9 to 5 job wouldnt give it up to pick cherries for three weeks.”</p>
<p>Simply because there are thousands of people not working at all. But you could ask the same question about the hotel labor in May/June, September/October. Clearly the high school students and college students won’t do it. And other folks are not lining up for the jobs - that’s determined by the state’s department of labor in certifying the need of H2B visas.</p>
<p>it is because of the low wages. In Europe where all workers are guaranteed a minimum salary but full benefits (paid vacation, health care) they have to pay more for each worker. Here, they don’t. So it is cheap to go out to eat. Most restaurants (the ones with liquor licenses) make money off the booze, not the food. But if workers were actually paid like their European counterparts you would see prices go way up.</p>
<p>is 5% unemployment really thousands?</p>
<p>[Workforce</a> Explorer, WA Labor Market](<a href=“Loading...”>Loading...)</p>
<p>perhaps pickers found it more profitable to be a grower instead</p>
<p>[Local</a> News | Seattle Times Newspaper](<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003860394_webpot30m.html]Local”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003860394_webpot30m.html)</p>
<p>More like TENS of thousands:</p>
<p>[Workforce</a> Explorer, WA Labor Market](<a href=“Loading...”>Loading...)</p>
<p>(Very few cherries in Okanogan).</p>
<p>My brother, my sister, and myself worked in the fields of Oregon. From Memorial Day to Labor Day. We started when we are fairly independent and could do a single task without too much constant supervison. ~10 yo. </p>
<p>4:30 am wakeup, before the sun rise in the summer. On the farm bus to get to the fields by 5:00, and in the field by 6:00. Done by 1 or 2 pm. We get cleaned up, take a nap, and outside again in the street playing street ball until 8 on work day, until dark on 9-10 Fri or Sat if we didn’t need to be in the fields. </p>
<p>Crapped into the outhouse. Water from a wooden barrel. Wear out a pair of sneakers because of the mud. </p>
<p>What a life. We all did it. My neighbors and I. Upper Middle Social-Econ class. </p>
<p>Wimps, all of you. Re-education camps and appreciation of the outdoors other than camping. Tom Sawyer would be proud.</p>
<p>Jmmom, I’m going to respectfully crack wise here just to make a point. I don’t know of any seasonal restaurants or hotels that move their location from place to place during the season. And that’s all I was talking about; summer restaurants and other hospitality businesses that use H2B visa workers because they say they can’t find sufficient numbers of local workers, unless they are compelled to pay higer wages, which, according to the Boston Globe story, they are doing this summer.</p>
<p>Mini addressed the situation regarding seasonal agricultural workers far better than I could, as I claim little knowledge what goes on in the fields and orchards. Summer work in the hospitality and recreation business? Now that’s something I have direct and personal experience in.</p>
<p>" Summer work in the hospitality and recreation business? Now that’s something I have direct and personal experience in. " </p>
<p>As do I. I personally have worked in he tourism industry for my entire life ( with a few yrs off during my days of being a stay at home mom )</p>
<p>We do not hire temporary foreign workers because it is critical that their communication skills must be equal to an American. A few months of studying English before entering the USA isn’t enough. English has to be the first language.
I have to work side by side with several of them , and most of them work hard, but we find it better to have local high school and college students. </p>
<p>The last few weeks before Labor Day are brutal for those of us who are still here. Our season does run from May until October , just as a previous poster stated.</p>
<p>The seasonal foreign workers on the Cape are largely from Ireland, I believe.</p>
<p>My family has a second home on Nantucket (an island off the coast of MA) and I know several people who own local restaurants and shops, the H-2 seasonal workers in restaurants and shops make the same amount of money as the college student working in those positions. In restaurants both groups make very little in salary, but much more in tips. One of my Ds worked on the island after graduating from college and stayed until the Christmas Stroll (the first weekend in December). She worked at a restaurant (not one of the high-end places), in an art gallery, and for a caterer (where the tip money was even better than in the restaurant–there are tons of weddings on the island, especially in the fall). She worked with many of the foreign workers and she found that all of them spoke English quite well and were hard workers. In fact, they wanted to work as much as they could. Most of the foreign workers on Nantucket are from Eastern Europe (Bulgaria, Russia, Lithuania) or from the Caribbean Islands. As others have posted, these workers fill positions that would go unfilled. Moreover, they can stay for the entire season–which generally goes from May to October.</p>
<p>LakeW, if you knew <em>any</em> thing about the kind of seasonal hospitality industry situations I am talking about… you would not “wisecrack” that I was referring to restaurants and hotels moving from place to place during the season.</p>
<p>I am talking about jobs where the seasonal employees live on site at the resort for the entire season, likely quite far away from their families. Some leave their families in Eastern Europe and come to live at the resort and work.</p>