Case Western Reserve University (CWRU) has been named to Forbes’ list of “New Ivies,” a group of 20 colleges and universities recognized for graduating students highly sought by employers.
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I was happy to see this. Case has a great reputation in my circles and apparently business executives agree!
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I think Case - back many years ago - always had a good rep. But their yield is paltry.
Not sure why - if it’s because kids use it as a fall back and go elsewhere - or in general senses the name isn’t known…like Ohio State.
But they seem to be doling out the merit money today - so anytime you buy kids, you have a chance!! Maybe they’ll step up in convincing more to choose it over others.
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This list was highly dependant on each school’s Artificial Intelligence use and curriculum. As a parent, I was very impressed that during freshman orientation they presented all the models and AI tools and encouraged students to use them through the CWRU portal. This allowed students to access the enterprise version of each model without cost to the student and allowed them to use the tools without their data being fed back to train the system. It seemed very ahead of the curve!
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Mine just picked Case (we paid the deposit this week) over schools with better name recognition (BU, UMiami, UIUC, etc.).
This cycle especially, Case keeps popping up on all the lists: Forbes’ New Ivies, AAU #1 Fastest Growing Research, Times’ Top Universities in the World, and Jeff Selingo’s Dream Schools. Maybe yield will start to improve? For us, Cleveland weather and crummy lower-classman dorms went into the negative column – but there were many more important things that went into the positive column. I would also guess that the lack of D1 sports/spirit is another negative for a lot of students, although that doesn’t seem to hurt yield at places like CMU or JHU. In any event, my kid is content with her decision. No school is perfect.
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CWRU is one of my favorites…and I honestly think it goes under the radar screen more than it should. I’m so glad to see it included in this list of colleges…very well deserved!
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I’d suggest it is a few things.
First, Cleveland is a hard sell to many kids. It shouldn’t be, it is a fun, affordable city and as such I think a good student city. And Case in particular has a good location. But it is unfamiliar to many kids, and to the extent they have impressions, they might be negative.
Second, Case doesn’t have the best funding for need aid. They are not exactly an UNwealthy university, but they are definitely not as wealthy as some, particularly in terms of things like endowment per student. Their institutional need-grant budget per student (per their CDS) was about $19,600. Fellow UAA (sports league) member WashU, for example, was around $28,400. Princeton’s was about $53,000!
Case then tries to compensate somewhat with merit aid. Princeton of course has none. WashU has very little. Case has a lot more–over $100M for Case compared to just over $10M at WashU.
Which is fine, but merit is a tricky game. You are giving it typically to your admits most likely to have very good alternatives. And you still have that Cleveland thing to overcome too.
Finally, I think Case is just in a very competitive set in a lot of ways. Princeton’s main competitor list is very short. Even a WashU is mostly competing just with other similar privates (which often don’t have much if any merit themselves). Maybe a few top publics sometimes, but not many.
However, I think Case is right in the range where suddenly a lot more flagships are seen as academic peers. Not all, but more. And they of course have a big financial advantage for in-state students, and even for OOS students might be cheaper.
Like Purdue OOS, say, starts off something like under half of what Case costs full pay. That’s a lot to make up. Parchment claims to have enough data for a statistically significant result, and it has Case at 29% (23.5% to 34.0% confidence interval), Purdue 71%.
OK, so in my circles, some people actually target Case for merit, and if they get enough that might be a done deal in fact. For some, it is on their reach list, and if it works out that may be their favorite offer. But I do think a lot end up cross-shopping Case with multiple flagship-level publics like Purdue, and of course some other private research universities as well. And when you are only one fair competitor among many, well, yields won’t be stellar.
And then there is the Cleveland thing . . . .
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Indeed, they all have their pros and cons. And I think for the right kid, the actual pros for Case can be very strong pros!
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Cleveland native here! People applying to CWRU absolutely need to visit. As mentioned, the city is really pretty amazing and has come a long way. First class orchestra, art museum, and theater very nearby. And of course the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Tons of terrific restaurants and fun neighborhoods nearby. Murray Hill, home to Little Italy has some fabulous restaurants. The Coventry area is a fun place to explore. And there has been significant development nearby with college students in mind. MLB, NFL, and Basketball teams in the city also. Lots of team spirit even when the teams lose.
CWRU has some excellent professional programs as well. Anyone considering premed has University Hospitals which is located right in campus, or Cleveland Clinic nearby. Lots of opportunities for volunteering in the greater area around the university.
This is a must visit before you make a decision college. Glad the folks who created this list were able to look past the “but it’s Cleveland” part.
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We are heading to Cleveland this summer to see Case!
Not sure why Cleveland would be less attractive than St Louis or Pittsburgh or South Bend or wherever the heck Purdue is in Indiana…I can name more impressive things in Cleveland (symphony, rock n roll hall of fame, baseball team, Cleveland clinic ) than most of this other cities have in sum…
And I have never been to Cleveland and have no connection to Ohio at all! but I knew all that shrug
it’s no LA or NY or DC obviously- but not sure why worse than other Midwest cities
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I in fact enjoy visiting Cleveland just as a tourist! Obviously this is asking a lot for some people, but if you are visiting Case and can make it into something like a weekend trip, I think you will find it quite enjoyable.
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Yield, admit rate– could there be worse datapoints to use when making a decision like where to go to college? I get the “crowdsourcing psychology” of wanting to be somewhere desirable (as in- “other teenagers like me found it desirable”) but of all the factors that go into whatever ratings– these two are somewhat dismal in what they say about how kids pick a college.
There are kids that want bucolic and rural. Case is not a fit. There are kids that only apply to UC’s. Case is not a fit. There are kids that want Catholic, kids that want to study marine biology on a saltwater campus, kids who need to be near their medical team in Atlanta. Case is not right for those kids.
But for kids looking for both breadth and depth intellectually, in a city where you can do symphony off campus plus fun stuff happening on-campus, it’s a terrific option. And I cannot imagine a parent telling a kid “hey, its yield is lower than Stanford’s, must be something going on, we need to investigate”.
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I get the sense the national branding is actually pretty similar between all these cities. Pittsburgh every once in a while gets a little buzz, but I am not sure it has sunk in much to a greater audience.
Part of the issue is just the “flyover country” mentality among some coastal denizens. Many have never stepped foot in any of these cities (outside of maybe connecting airports), but they still have an impression of what they are like, and it isn’t particularly good. I sometimes joke they basically think of them as made up of pro sports stadiums, parking lots around stadiums, and shuttered factories.
The truth is particularly with the more historic cities, there is a lot of great art, architecture, these days food, nice parks, cool walkable neighborhoods (many with an interesting immigrant history), some rather grand neighborhoods, and so on. Definitely plenty to keep you amused in your free time for four years of college, more for some of us!
But at least until people experience it for themselves, they can be skeptical.
ETA: By the way, though, I don’t mean everyone who has never been thinks like that! Like, I think serious symphony people, for example, know about the Cleveland Symphony! There are lots of other ways in which people can hear good things, including for that matter this type of conversation.
But many people might simply never have encountered any of that.
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It is very unfortunate that some people basically think that unless a lot of other people want something, and in some contexts even that many people who want it can’t have it, it can’t be worth wanting.
Personally, many of my best experiences have NOT involved crowded venues, long lines, high ticket prices, and so on. I love to get off the beaten path and explore the world on my own terms. It is truly amazing how much there is out there that is interesting, beautiful, and so on.
But I guess on the plus side–all those people crowding into all the same few things is precisely what makes the rest of it so accessible for me.
ETA: All that said, this Forbes recognition is basically because the C-suite and hiring executives that Forbes surveyed apparently have a high opinion of Case Western. So, you know, that’s maybe speaking to other peoples’ values as well.
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I didn’t say it’s something kids study in making a decision. I just noticed a poor yield.
The kids you describe wouldn’t turn CWRU down (en masse) because they never would have applied.
I’m not diminishing Case - just noting. We looked with my son but he instantly didn’t like. I think it was two things - he wanted the big campus (didn’t like the sculptures) but also doing end of day college visits often dims hope for that school. Kids are warm out. We did OSU that AM. It did there.
In the last data they published, they WL near 25%.
Personally I like the school - it’s always had a good rep. The mba did too years ago.
Yes! There is really something for everyone in Cleveland if you look. My kid is a sports fan so I scheduled our first visit so we could catch a Cavs game. And they are getting a WNBA expansion team. The city is very accessible and relatively inexpensive.
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We loved our visit to Case and it topped our son’s list (until he got into the big West Coast public engineering school he’d been hoping for).
Although he loves UW and Seattle, at Case he’d have been able to join any engineering club and pick his major without having to apply for it. At UW, conversely, he’s not guaranteed to get his top choice engineering major – and the engineering clubs are incredibly competitive to get into (you basically need to come in with a ton of experience).
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This was a big reason why 27 dropped UW - I have little doubt their grades would be good enough to be ok, but that and the clubs (and just a REALLY big university) was a turn off despite all the lovely things about UW.
On other hand, we have heard AMAZING things from case parents.
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We really enjoyed our visit to CWRU on one of their open house days. The professors are very transparent and accessible.
Many accepted students get around $25-$35k/yr merit aid so the cost is somewhat predictable.
The low yield is probably because many of the tippy top students view it as a backup to T20-ish schools. If they dont get in to the highly rejective schools, they weigh CWRU against other choices, some which may be less expensive (even after their merit aid offer).
Our neighbor’s son attends and he loves it.
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I could be wrong, but I don’t think cost is that big a reason for low yield. For us, with merit, Case was cheaper than several OOS publics (e.g., Pitt) and many privates.
I do think Case might benefit from sinking a little more money into housing/residential life. The dorms are pretty bleak (no A/C, etc.), and nowadays families have come to expect all the bells and whistles. (Maybe they could shift some money from their extensive marketing/mailings budget to dorms, lol. We get a brochure every few days!) They might also consider better marketing around non-STEM programs. I think many (most?) people associate Case with pre-med/nursing/engineering, which might feel limiting to some applicants.
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