<p>Even putting grieving aside…let’s say the child’s death was an accident due to some sort of negligence where Casey didn’t mean for her to die. Even if she didn’t grieve (which I do find strange), you would think in the following days, she’d display some anxiety or some sort of nervousness considering what transpired and all of her behavior and observations by others was that she acted as if she had not a care in the world. That alone is not enough to convict but just speaking now of that one issue. Even if her child were kidnapped, like her original story, she’d be nervous and seeking help. Or if her child died in the pool, like she now claims, she’d be affected in some way either by grief or by anxiety of the coverup in the days immediately following. Also, given her story that her dad was involved in the cover up of an accidental drowning…not plausible because most adults (and a former policeman to boot), in the case of an accidental death such as a child’s drowning, don’t attempt to cover it up by making the child missing. There would typically be sympathy in the case of an accidental drowning. I cannot ever see a reason why the grandfather would be motivated to cover up such a so called accident.</p>
<p>*Casey is despicable and I would have no problem finding her guilty on a number of things. But murder…she has not committed murder or shown that is something she would do. That’s a tough transition to make. Neglect of the child that led to death is about as close as I could get. </p>
<p>*</p>
<p>But…if she drugged her D with chloroform (or any other drug) and that led to her death…that is FELONY murder…that is first degree special circumstance in Florida (and Calif and other states) and is MURDER that can get the death penalty or LWOP.</p>
<p>Also, with circumstantial evidence (considering many murders are not observed by others), maybe one piece of evidence alone doesn’t prove anything but when you piece together many pieces of evidence, it may be compelling. For example, not only are traces of chloroform in the car (with odors of decomposition), but there is duct tape on the mouth and nose and searches for chloroform on the computer and those are just three pieces of evidence but once you add up what may be many many pieces, it may lead to only one conclusion.</p>
<p>I don’t know the law but if what is posted in 142 is true…and this may be what happened…where Casey may not have intended for her daughter to die, but she did things to her that caused her death. For instance, you can shake a baby and not be trying to kill it but the baby dies, or same with hitting them real hard on the head. She may have tried to silence the child for a period of time but her method led to her death.</p>
<p>A lot of doubt in that chloroform and decomposition odor testimony, including mistakes made by the expert in the samples. How sure we can be about that, i don’t know. Did she just leave the child somewhere and found her dead? Did she leave the child drugged to keep her quiet and find her dead? Did she lose the child, not want to report it because she was so sick that she did not want to deal with that interruption in her life? Who knows what exactly happened. </p>
<p>Though it is a crime to not report a dead body and to dispose of it yourself, it is not the same penalty as murder. They released some husband who admitted to grinding up his wife’s dead body because they could not pin the death on her, though they could prove (and he admitted) the discovery and disposal of it. </p>
<p>Is the prosecution going for the death penalty in this case?</p>
<p>I can’t say that I have been following this story closely, but it sounds to me as if it is all down to the duct tape. If the child’s mouth was duct-taped, the mother killed her, either accidentally or on purpose. She should at least be convicted of the most serious level of manslaughter, and do maximum time.</p>
<p>Honestly, I think she murdered her. Intentionally murdered her. I think she drugged her with chloroform so that she wouldn’t struggle and then she covered her mouth and nose with tape to suffocate her. I do not think it was an accident. Why was she searching the internet for “neck braking”? I think she considered that method and changed her mind and decided to tape the child’s airways closed.</p>
<p>Nobody accidentally kills someone and then acts as if she hasn’t got a care in the world. What I don’t understand is why she kept her body in the car? Why not dispose of it?</p>
<p>I would have to have more proof to believe that. I cannot imagine a mother killing that sweet child. Drugging her while out partying, yes. She seems careless and selfish, but cold blooded, direct murder, I cannot believe that. The pure evil of it…no, I can’t. </p>
<p>I think she found her D dead, panicked and decided to make it look like someone kidnapped and killed the child, by duct taping her and throwing the body out. Whether she died from drowning in the pool or from being drugged or asphyxiated from being in a hot car too long, it’s impossible to say, but I don’t think Casey killed the little girl. Can you kill someone with chloroform that easily? I’m not about to look that up.</p>
<p>I think there is a good chance she murdered her on purpose too. There is the possibility of her having done something to the child and not expecting her to die too. But in any case, it seems pretty obvious she was involved in the child’s death in some capacity. And yes, the duct tape seems like a critical piece of evidence. I haven’t truly followed the case much and only read a few things and of course, am not on the jury (and have not watched it at all on TV).</p>
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<p>Of course it is hard to imagine killing one’s sweet little girl. But some do it, as unfathomable as it seems.</p>
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<p>She may have not used the chloroform to kill her but used it to knock her out and kill her so as to not suffer as much or make it easier to do so. Or she may have only wished to have knocked her out and not meant to kill her and it went terribly wrong. But she looked up chloroform on the computer it seems and it was found on the remains or in the car where the remains seem to have been for a time and so how else do you explain that?</p>
<p>It is hard to believe that a mother would intentionally kill her child but is it any easier to understand people who systematically abuse their children over a period of years?</p>
<p>There are countless examples of people who murder their own children. It is, I will admit usually a crime of passion but sometimes it is premeditated.</p>
<p>I don’t think she killed her with the chloroform, I think she knocked her out with it and then taped her mouth and nose with the intent to kill her. If she was taping her to make it look like a kidnapping, why would she leave the body in the car?</p>
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<p>And yet, remember Susan Smith? Drowned her two little boys, then made up some story about a phantom black guy who kidnapped them? She murdered her two little children in cold blood. So some women do deliberately, cold-bloodedly murder their children.</p>
<p>Remember Diane Downs? She shot her 3 children because her boyfriend did not want children.
[Diane</a> Downs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Downs]Diane”>Diane Downs - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>I don’t know the law but if what is posted in 142 is true…</p>
<p>Yes…many states (including Florida) have Felony Murder laws.</p>
<p>That means that if a death occurs during the commission of a felony then that is Felony Murder…first degree murder…and in states with the DP, that means the person can get the DP. </p>
<p>So…pre-meditation isn’t necessary…</p>
<p>So…</p>
<p>if you rob a bank, and you didn’t intend to shoot anyone, but you end up doing so and the person dies…felony murder.</p>
<p>If you burn down a house, but thought no one was inside, but someone was inside and does die…felony murder. (and that includes if a fireman dies putting out the arson fire)</p>
<p>If you do something dangerous to a child…like drug them with chloroform …and the child dies…felony murder.</p>
<p>and, this surprises some…if you commit a felony and you’re speeding away from the cops and you cause a car accident and that person dies…felony murder.</p>
<p>or, if you’re the person who is driving the “get away car” and one of your group kills someone during a felony, then you are charged with felony murder - even if you didn’t know that one of your group even had a gun with him…and even if there was an agreement that no one would be killed.</p>
<p>remember Susan Smith? Drowned her two little boys, then made up some story about a phantom black guy who kidnapped them? She murdered her two little children in cold blood. So some women do deliberately, cold-bloodedly murder their children.</p>
<p>If I remember correctly, didn’t she have some lover on the side…and he had said that he wouldn’t permanently get together with her if she had children?</p>
<p>That angle hasn’t come up yet in trial with Casey, but I do remember someone saying that Tony (Casey’s then-boyfriend) had told Casey that he never wanted to deal with the burden of children.</p>
<p>The felony murder issue is probably why the defense made up the obviously false drowning story.</p>
<p>It’s more believable that Casey drugged Caylee so that she could party and that the child died either from an overdose of the drug or from being left in a hot car (this is Florida, after all). The duct tape could then have been used as part of some attempt to wrap up the body to conceal evidence of decomposition. But although in this scenario, Casey didn’t intentionally kill Caylee, the child’s death would have occurred during the commission of a felony, and that makes it felony murder – which is just as bad, legally, as premeditated murder.</p>
<p>My understanding is that the state cannot link Casey to the duct tape directly (ie: finger prints), and there is no evidence that Casey purchased drugs, or had choloroform to poison Caylee. Additionally, from what I heard on the talk/news shows, no evidence that choloroform was found in Caylee’s bone marrow.</p>
<p>*My understanding is that the state cannot link Casey to the duct tape directly (ie: finger prints), and there is no evidence that Casey purchased drugs, or had choloroform to poison Caylee. *</p>
<p>true…likely because the Duct tape was under water for awhile.</p>
<p>She didn’t need to buy drugs/chemicals for chloroform…pool chems and nail polish remover can be used to make chloroform. </p>
<p>he felony murder issue is probably why the defense made up the obviously false drowning story.</p>
<p>Exactly…but this is what bothers me. Ethically, the defense is not supposed to “make up” a story. An atty can be disbarred for that. However, it’s unlikely that Casey told the “george found the drowned body and agreed to hide it for me” story to the defense…since she’s not savvy enough to add that extra on. So, I do think that Jose Baez did make that part up…but it’s one of those illegal things that it would be nearly impossible to prove unless at some point CASEY came forward and testified that SHE never said that…and that Jose made it up.</p>
<p>Defense attys know that they really can’t get caught with this…and they certainly can lead their client to this story by asking them things like…did your dad find the body? Did he agree to hide the body for you to protect you? And since there is atty/client privilege…who’s going to know?</p>
<p>The drowning story just doesn’t pass the smell test because no young person is going to spend 3 years in jail for an accidental drowning. What defense atty is going to sit back, let his client stew in jail for 3 years, and not contact the prosecution and say, “you’ve charged my client with the wrong thing…the baby accidentally drowned…all she’s guilty of is illegally disposing of the body.”</p>
<p>I wonder at what point they came up with this story? It had to be after much of the evidence came out…no fingerprints on the duct tape, etc.</p>
<p>I don’t know if anyone has brought this up in this thread yet but what makes the drowning story even more implausible are the jailhouse tapes of conversations between Casey and George where she tells her father how Caylee will be found alive and the police will all be sorry they ever blamed her. It would make no sense that such a conversation would ever transpire if both knew that Caylee was already dead. It would be typical behavior though if Casey had killed Caylee and hidden her body given her other behavior in the time the child was missing. I am not sure these jailhouse tapes are at all admissable in court. Maybe someone else knows?</p>
<p>I was wondering about that - whether the defense attorneys helped make up a story that at least sort of fit the facts.</p>