<p>WashDad Jr. (let’s call him Junior), as you may recall from 300-400 posts on this subject, is a smart kid who has issues with turning homework in. Never studied for a standardized test, 1490 SAT plus SAT IIs 800+760+680, 5s in all his AP tests, NMSF, etc. GPA low (very low) 3s. One of Junior’s “reach for the stars” schools is Olin College. </p>
<p>He had an interview with an admissions officer from Olin this afternoon and it went really well. Junior brought along his “resume” of inventions, projects, and activities that he wrote without parental involvement. Some of the interviewer’s comments were things like, “do you think this is patentable?” and “I’m glad we did this interview – some things just don’t show up in an application.”</p>
<p>Junior has gone from “what the heck – I might as well apply to a couple of impossible schools” to “hey, he seemed to like me.” As Junior comes to grips with what comparitively low grades really mean to him, I’m glad that he gets to have at least one optimistic afternoon. I’m also glad that there is at least a hint that one interviewer might have understood that there is more to my son than his GPA and class rank.</p>
<p>Any other happy stories of small victories out there? I swear this is harder on parents than the kids…</p>
<p>Washdad - my d was in a similar situation. Excellent tester, top shelf ecs and awards, but the daily work was just a grind to her. Plus, she was always coming up with some interesting thing, OTHER than schoolwork, with which to load her plate…and load it she did! So naturally, the gpa and rank were not all that. Respectable, but did not reflect her abilities.</p>
<p>Happily, she ended up with many good opportunities. Honors programs at more than a handful of colleges, an Ivy acceptance, good scholarship offers. Not every school is willing to look past the GPA, but many are…it’s just a matter of finding the right one. And I won’t kid you, she was waitlisted at one of her top choices (Rice) and denied at a couple of Ivy ‘Hail Mary’s’, but she is now a very happy honors program student at UNC-CH where she rec’d a scholarship. </p>
<p>One thing I’ve learned. When it all shakes out and the process is over…most kids fall in love with the school that really wants them. And that is all that truly matters.</p>
<p>When I pulled my daughter out of middle school I was surprised to find out she really couldn’t do algebra after getting all A minuses in her advanced math. What I found out were that the grades really were about getting the homework turned in on time and I made sure that happened (then she was able to stay in the class) Every Friday she got a letter home, (“if this grade drops to a B then she must leave this class–this class is a priviledge to be in and you must get an A to stay in etc” Anyway, in spite of all that, she really didn’t know any algebra!!! To make a long story short --her home school program yielded grades based primarily on proctored comprehensive tests (two hours and 14 pages for algebra- no calculator–two tests per semester) They assume the homework is only practice, and might not be your own work, and so it’s graded lightly. So it was up to mom to help her prepare for a two hour test as they really don’t do that in school, with “challenge quizzes” along the way, and checklists on the wall above the breakfast table. Surprisingly, this helped her a lot in college. My other observation is that there is a lot of cheating going on in High Schools and to put pressure on your kids for grades is to just push them into cheating. Mine would have had B’s and C’s if I would have left her in school instead of her very good grades. (I didn’t let her take the exam until she was ready, and I would quiz her for hours on all the subjects) But this badgering did prepare her for college, and her self esteem rose immensely with the good grades. I made her see that hard work will pay off. Keep in mind that the grades in high school are, frankly, based on a lot of busy work, not what you know on a subject. The high school group projects are based on the lowest grade of the group, no matter how hard the other kids work. The teachers always assign the group members. My daughter spent a lot of time trying to get one kid to show up for their group meeting, which he never did. (she took a few classes at HS) It was a good experience for her to see how grades are assigned. The really good students are highly skilled at being the Teachers Pets, (I overheard this discussion while driving) but this skill doesn’t really carry over into college!</p>
<p>WashDad…lovely to hear when a son is recognized for his potential and that special zing in his personality and style. Here is hoping for your S’s fulfillment with an April match that makes him very very pleased.</p>
<p>This is why I resist the “slacker” label some CCers slap onto anyone with less than a 3.9 GPA. Junior is one of the most active kids I know, he’s just usually active with what interests him, not what his teachers want him to do (“I get As on my tests, why do they care what I do at home?”). I’m sometimes proud of his willingness to resist “the man.” Sometimes, I want to scream at him for the same thing. Ah, parenting… </p>
<p>A friend of mine wrote me an email in which he mentioned some HS kids who are “natural hoop-jumpers.” Not Junior. I’ve had to point out to him that on one end of the iconoclast scale is Richard Feynmann, but on the other end is Ted Kaczynski. I don’t know how much separates the two, but I hope he avoids the Dark Side of not caring what others think of him and heads towards the light of a Nobel Prize. Or at least a steady job.</p>
<p>That’s really cool WashDad - I have to admit I’ve wondered if Olin is one of the schools that Mathson should have applied to, but it’s so small! It does seem like it might be a good fit for your son - good luck to him!</p>
<p>Wonderful news! I hate to bring up another school, but have you looked at MIT? I know it’s so selective, but with all of Marilee Jones’ comments about looking beyond grades etc, maybe your son’s projects/essays would catch someone’s attention. They do talk about wanting the creative types.</p>
<p><a href=“MIT”>quote</a> with all of Marilee Jones’ comments about looking beyond grades etc, maybe your son’s projects/essays would catch someone’s attention
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<p>The MIT scattergrams are the most depressing thing in the world for a kid with a lowish GPA. WashDadJr. was pretty intimidated and discouraged. At this point he’s not planning to apply to MIT, although we have their application in the file. Does anyone have any words of encouragement for a non-obvious candidate at MIT?</p>
Let’s just say stranger admissions have happened. My fiance was (well, is) a white kid with okay-but-not-super SATs (1400 on the old test plus a stellar 450 on the writing SATII), middle-class, and from Massachusetts – stats-wise, no different from a zillion other kids who applied his year. I think his completely overwhelming lifelong love affair with remote-controlled airplanes and rockets really came through in the application, and he was admitted (and will graduate with a degree in aerospace engineering this year).</p>
<p>Ben Jones and the other MIT admissions officers swear up and down that a great match with the school is more important to them than numbers, and I’ve seen them fight tooth and nail for applicants that other people would say “aren’t MIT material” (the other people, of course, being wrong).</p>
<p>My personal feeling is that if your son feels that he’s competitive for Olin, then he’s probably competitive for MIT. </p>
<p>And, of course, congratulations to your son on the great interview.</p>
<p>I would agree with that statement, although small size and Candidates’ Weekend do give Olin a great chance to see a pretty complete picture which sounds like it could really help in this case. At any rate, I’d agree that he should probably apply to MIT if he thinks he’d like to go there. </p>
<p>Whether or not MIT and Olin are ususally good fits for the same kid is another question. I’d be tempted to say no, but plenty of kids have struggled long and hard with the choice between those two. I would at least suggest you look long and hard at both schools. They’re similar, but they have some pretty important differences that can easily make one a better fit than the other for an individual kid.</p>
<p>The thing I’d be a little worried about is getting boys like this to stay in these tough programs, even if they can get in. Olin probably has a lot of support (I have no idea), but a kid that isn’t especially obsessive about deadlines etc. might really struggle in some of these schools. Clearly, they’d be in there with kids who really ARE obsessive.</p>
<p>Well, I can’t speak about other schools, but Olin offers many chances for students to get credit for the things they find cool. Many classes include semester of half-semester long projects that are pretty open ended, and there is always the option of doing research in an area of interest.</p>
<p>I think a lot of kids who don’t like to do homework shape up quite a bit in college, whatever college they happen to attend – it’s much easier to make oneself do work when the work is less boring, mechanical, and trivial. Scientists and engineers are a lot like (very finicky) artists, and it’s tough to make us work unless the appropriate cool-projects-and-research-experiences carrots are dangled in front of us. :)</p>
<p>It depends ont eh high school. If the high school is top rated and routinely sends kids to HYPSM, his chances of breaking through the scattergram are slim. The schools aren’t going to set that precedence–in my experience. They are going to take the top kids.</p>
<p>Also, you do have to worry about a ‘cruiser’ at MIT. The coursework is very tough and his peers are well and truly up for it. That’s a steep hill for a kid who hasn’t worked hard in high school classrooms. </p>
<p>Still, there may be value in letting him fall in love enough to apply. I know MANY young men who were genuinely stung when they realized that they were viewed as slackers and rejected on that basis. That sting turned them into instant straight A students at the colleges they did attend.</p>
<p>If you will allow me to self-indulgently tell a story… my first quarter of Physics in HS I got a “C” and a comment from my teacher, “I’m very disappointed; I know you can do better.” I remember very clearly thinking, “You SOB, I’ll show you!” I finished the semester with a “B” and earned an “A” second semester. I’m not sure why I thought this was “showing him,” but that C and B were the only non-A grades I had as a senior. I think it was that moment when I decided to work. I’m still waiting for that moment with Junior (although he did produce a really nice essay for Olin last night).</p>
My fiance was (well, is) a white kid with okay-but-not-super SATs (1400 on the old test plus a stellar 450 on the writing SATII), middle-class, and from Massachusetts – stats-wise, no different from a zillion other kids who applied his year. I think his completely overwhelming lifelong love affair with remote-controlled airplanes and rockets really came through in the application, and he was admitted (and will graduate with a degree in aerospace engineering this year).</p>