Cello parents... let's chat!

I thought I’d start a thread for parents of cellists where we can discuss this process specific to our kids’ instrument. :slight_smile:

How long have your cellists been playing, and when did they decide to focus on music?

What schools are your cellists are looking at, and with whom would they like to study?

What repertoire are they planning for auditions?

Traveling with a cello - ugh. How has that been going for you?

Have your cellists done any summer programs, and what did they think?

My son is 14, so no auditions or college applications yet. His top choice school right now is San Francisco Conservatory because he wants to study with Richard Aaron and stay on the West Coast, but I’m sure that will change in the next 3 years. He’s been playing for 4 1/2 years, and is working on the Lalo Concerto, Brahms E minor Sonata, some Popper Etudes, and Bach 3rd Suite. He’s interested in adding some newer works into his repertoire - we just heard Jeffrey Ziegler playing a new cello concerto by Andy Akiho, and it was very inspiring.

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My son, when he was a cello student, was always interested in playing 20th & 21st century music.
Some of the most fun 20th century student pieces we found were:
“Three Easy Pieces” by Paul Hindemith
“Sonata for Solo Cello” by George Crumb
“Cello Sonata” by Claude Debussy
“4 Short Studies for solo cello” by Bernd Alois Zimmermann

There were more, but these come to mind, all these many years later, as pieces he could work on without an ensemble. It can be hard to find teachers interested in having students play New Music but they often can be persuaded to let the student play 20th century music.

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My son was/is a cellist. He started on cello in 6th grade after several years of piano and a year on upright bass (very bored in elementary school orchestra on bass). He added voice to piano and cello in 8th grade, played in school orchestra, youth symphonies, and regional and all-state orchestras, (plus all the choir stuff), successfully auditioned into college on voice AND cello, and studied cello as a secondary instrument in college—choral scholarship made the decision of which to focus on a little easier. He attended college as a voice major and is currently a first year teacher, teaching high school choir and orchestra.

Anecdotes from the college process:
We focused less on specific teachers than most, because of the challenges of auditioning on two instruments, but fit was still important and he did reject one school in the end because he didn’t connect at all with the cello professor after a couple of trial lessons.

Since he had a lot going on musically besides just cello, he got a late (11th grade) start on concerto repertoire, and he’s pretty opinionated. So he, not his teacher, chose his first ever concerto (the same one he used for his college auditions), and he chose not Haydn, or Saint-Saëns, but Elgar :flushed:. I also remember that at one of his audition days, he had his voice audition first, and then cello, and for the cello audition he decided he didn’t need to be so formal and pulled off his tie, unbuttoned his shirt a bit, rolled up his sleeves and headed off to audition on that fraught-with-danger first movement of Elgar and some more sensible Bach, with me trying not to hyperventilate over his audacity. And yes, they must have heard his potential because he was accepted on cello along with voice.

Since he was a voice major in the end, and cello ended up secondary, his lessons on cello were with a grad student who turned out to be a fantastic teacher. Even though it wasn’t his primary focus, he improved hugely as a cellist in college. It’s a pleasure to hear him play these days, and he uses his skills daily, teaching his orchestra students.

Flying with the cello:
We have used Southwest. You buy an extra seat for the cello and board with the wheelchair folks at the beginning. It’s costly to buy two seats instead of one but not so bad otherwise. For one of his auditions when it would have been too expensive to fly with the cello we arranged to borrow one. These days maybe we’d do a virtual or video audition in that situation, but this was pre-covid. The cello flew with him back and forth from college to home several times with no issue. (Southwest is changing to assigned seats in a year or so, hopefully that doesn’t make cello seats more of a problem).

If your son is 14 you have plenty of time to plan loosely, and see how he grows before decisions have to be made. Best wishes to him.

Where did your son attend school that he was able to do both?

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He attended UNT. And he was not able to “do both” entirely. He was able to do cello lessons, and he could possibly have managed a chamber group, but he could not participate in an orchestra, as the rehearsal times for the orchestra he was qualified to play in conflicted with his choirs. This is the trouble with trying to keep two instruments- even when it’s allowed, as it is at many schools, it’s not always entirely possible. He was able to keep cello in the mix, and make massive gains in his playing ability, but he couldn’t fully participate as he would have as a cello major.

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Everyone here always talks about buying a seat for a cello on a plane - but my son for years and years flew with his cello in a flight case - which was an outer case that wrapped around his BAM case. There was only one flight where there was damage - and our homeowner’s insurance paid for its repair. There was generally an oversize charge for the case - but sometimes it was waived. Southwest was particularly cooperative.
But maybe everyone on here has cellos which are much more valuable than my son’s… The hard part was always fitting that huge flight case in the car!

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My son doesn’t have a particularly valuable cello, as stringed instruments go, and when he was auditioning he had a very basic rent-to-own student model.
I remember the flight cases being expensive and hard to find for us, and at the time we didn’t know if he’d ever need it again after auditions. It probably made sense for us to just buy the cello a ticket even though we did fly with it a few more times since he went further away for college. Maybe for some the flight case is a good option though.

Perhaps we should look for one of those cases., My son has flown with his cello once and it went fine (Air Canada).
My cellist is working on applications now. He’s far too relaxed about it for my taste!
We have recording time booked with an accompanist coming up soon, but he also needs to record the unaccompanied pieces.
He’s busy with the orchestras he’s in and teaching at a Sistema music academy twice a week, so he is plodding through the essays and such but not focused on them.
We found that summer music camps/festivals are quite fun and he is glad to have done some this last summer. He had done chamber music camps at his local music school before.

Maybe your son was at the Festival in Sun Valley where they premiered the concerto? That is one of the festivals my son did this summer.

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It depends on the instrument, but there is a reason that cellists in general buy a seat for the cello rather than check it. The flight cases protect to a certain extent against rough handling, the problem is the cargo hold is not pressurized or heated, and that pressure and temp shift can cause damage to the cello by itself. Plus over the years there have been issues with rough handling and with airport workers opening the cases to ‘play’ with the instruments and causing damage.

If you are going to put it in cargo, then def get a case designed for it, it is your best bet. It also depends on the instrument itself, the conditions in the cargo hold can cause the sound to change on an instrument, it can cause anything from a sound post shifting, to cracks you almost can’t see.

In terms of airlines technically under the rules they can’t refuse to allow you to buy a seat for the cello, but in practical reality, they can give you a hard time (my experience? My son is in a professional chamber string quartet, and the cello player has run into that, even though he had a seat for it. Sometimes they will offer to put it into a closet up front (which has its own problems,with possible theft), but sometimes they try to insist he checks it, which given the value of his instrument, no way. Delta has been pretty good to them with travel, but they are also in their rewards program. American has a reputation of being bad at times with instruments (at one airport, when my son was boarding with his violin, the person at the plane slapped a baggage sticker on it, telling him he couldn’t bring it into the cabin. My son took the sticker off, and took it onboard. )

It is always wise to confirm with the airlines with instruments.

You are still early in the process but it is never too early really to start thinking of the future and which path to go. Keep in mind that in the 3+years until he applies things can change. A program can go from being not so great to great, and vice versa. A cello teacher once regarded highly retires or doesn’t seem to have the spark any more. It will change, the kid may decide he really wants to study cello performance with X at Y school then suddenly say “nah, what was I thinking”. Here are my thoughts, they actually apply to most instruments.

-Getting exposure to music programs is huge (if it is possible, depends where you live and your family). I highly recommend youth orchestras and chamber music experience, given that ensemble playing is how 99% of musicians make their way. The big thing here is exposure to other kids and talking to them. The grapevine in the music world is a pretty amazing things, both with teachers and fellow students. Plus you also get a chance to see yourself compared to other kids, see where they are. That doesn’t mean that 'oh, go there, and just see how good the other kids are, and see if you are good enough". That isn’t the point, take it from me, at 14 it means very little unless you are still playing suzuki or something. I can tell you that kid everyone thought was hot at 14 may go nowhere (and in fact, given the odds with music, likely won’t). There was a kid in the youth symphony my son was in, who the people running it thought he was great, etc, etc, because he was technically advanced (more than a bit prodigy-ish). Kid never did anything in music. Meanwhile my son to them was a face in the crowd. It really is just to get an idea of playing, and also what in some ways to shoot for.

-Prep programs (if they exist in your area) can be valuable, they kind of recreate what a conservatory is like, you take lessons, take theory, orchestra, chamber, etc. It gives a taste of it, and again you get to see other kids and what they are doing, it can push you forward.

-This has been controversial on here, and while you don’t need to do these , summer programs and music festivals can make a big difference. Besides the getting to know other kids (that often extends well beyond the festival), it also is about getting to know people in the music word, specifically the people who are at those festivals who teach and coach. Sometimes it is well known, high level teachers, whom you might get to know and like as a teacher, but often it is also the people employed by the festival or those running it who talk about the music world and give insight. Along with what parents share on here (which also is valuable, there is noise on this forum too, but there is also a lot of insight). It also lets the kid know if they really want to do this, depending on the program (I am not a fan of the ones where it is like summer musical camp, like Interlochen, but that is just me, my view is it kind of dilutes the musical side. Then again, kids have gone there and thrived and they do bring in decent faculty and such, so that is a big YMMV).

It also gains the kid exposure in a pretty small world, gets them noticed. A teacher that works with them and likes them, or a coach there who sees the potential, can end up making a big difference down the road, they can recommend the kid to another teacher or recommend a school, or even want to teach the kid and can help get them a decent deal at a school.

Is this absolutely necessary? No.

-You should also be evaluating your son’s teacher. One of the big ones, does it seem like they know what is going on in the broader music world? Do they have knowledge of things like programs, how good the teachers are, what is required to get in there?

You would be surprised at how ignorant someone even in that world is. My son had a teacher through like 6th grade, who was a principal in a fairly big time regional orchestra. And it was incredible how little they knew (we realized this later, in retrospect),how uncurious they were, and how little they knew about what music schools were like today. They got into a well known conservatory in the middle 70’s, and they said they got serious in High School, got into this program, and right out of it got into the orchestra they are still in. Yet they didn’t know how much things had changed, what the level of playing was now (in an uncharitable moment, my son said they would have a hard time getting admitted to a top level conservatory playing the way they do now).

Teachers are an important resource, and if you feel the current teacher isn’t tuned into what is required to get into a good music program, or you feel they can’t take them to a high level, you may need to change. With our son he kind of had a goal, to get into a top prep program, and through a friend who was a well known musician and teacher (on a different instrument), we found someone.

One thing I will tell you, is to not let it overwhelm you (and it will, I promise that). Music is a tough, competitive thing, but what you think is the cats meow may not be, and one of the things you really have to do is believe in yourself (when I say you, I mean the student, though parents need to do that to). Take it from me, we knew very little of the music world, really nothing, and went on instinct, so try and not get discouraged or think like disaster lurks around every corner, it doesn’t.

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We saw the concerto with the Oregon Symphony in early October. Does Sun Valley have a summer music festival for youth? That would be amazing, I’m nervous about sending him across the country on his own (even though he went to Europe last summer - in that case he was traveling with a teacher).

Thank you for such a thoughtful reply! My husband and I were both music performance majors and went different directions for our careers, so we have a little bit of a leg up. But wind instruments (which we play) are so different than strings. The level of musicianship expected from 18-year-old string players is so high compared to winds.

My son plays in youth orchestra and chamber music through a program for youth at the college (we live in a mid-sized college town). He struggles with feeling like he needs to be the “best” in whatever setting he is in, and I’m trying to help him manage his expectations. He recently “lost” two auditions and took a big hit to his confidence. I’m helping him figure out how to manage losing auditions, since it will happen A LOT in the life of a professional musician.

His teacher is one of the best musicians we have ever met. He is active and thriving professionally, and is always very forward-thinking in terms of exploring new repertoire and making connections. However, my son is his only student right now, and I’ve only ever known him to have at most 4 or 5 students. So he’s not sending lots of kids off to conservatory like a teacher with a large studio would. But their connection is amazing (my son has studied with him for 3 years) and his growth with this teacher has been great.

It sounds like your S is getting really good teaching and getting musical experience that is really, really good. That is teacher is a working professional is important, and if he knows the music world, if he networks and such, he should be a great resource. That he has only 4 or 5 students at a time may be a big plus to me, it likely means he is only teaching kids with his limited time he feels are into it,at least that has been my experience (teachers with a lot of students can be a sign that is how they make their living, and they are teaching all levels, which is perfectly fine, but they also may not have the experience to really take kids beyond a certain level).

Speaking from experience, tell your son not to fret about competitions and comparing himself to other kids, like if other kids win the concerto competition in an orchestra he is in, or he does another competition. Competitions are a weird beast and the hotshot kid you see at this level often ends up going nowhere. If the kids teacher seems happy with his progress, is a performer himself, and seems to know the music world I would trust him more. Competitions are all full of bias, at all levels, there are kids that for whatever reasons the jury likes, sometimes because they think the good kids are ‘slumming’ in the competition (there is some truth to it, a lot of the string and piano kids at Juilliard pre college routinely used to descend on every local competition in the NYC area, especially concerto competitions).

One thing with music is it is one of those things that is a long term thing, it is a long slog. The teenage soloist who is a star, the kid right out of conservatory who makes it into the high level orchestra (sometimes as a principal when still in school) have happened but there are even more of a unicorn today. Most kids in strings end up doing grad and post grad programs for a reason, because of the level of playing. Those stories you hear inevitably are from a different generation, and a lot of those kids who as teens soloed with orchestras at all levels? Many of them disappear in the mire. Through my son he now has a huge network of kids his age , up and coming kids, and also with people who have made it, and there are very few such stories of the young kid making it, the ones like that were all prior generations. One story I tell, we saw Ray Chen, who is now one of the more well known violin soloists, when he was at Curtis , we saw his recitals there. He has it all IMO, we always thought so, and yet it was a long path for him.

So while it is good in some ways to measure yourself against other musicians, to look at videos of cellists for example, take it all with a grain of salt and then something. One of the things is the idea that stellar playing alone makes for a career in music, and that is absolute rubbish. Obviously, you need to be a really, really skilled player, but plenty of those superstars of the firmament that teachers pushed and their parents grimace, end up going nowhere because they literally were not musicians and they often turned people off with their attitude. I can tell you that music is no different than other aspects of the world, that talent and proficiency isn’t enough. So much is in networking, in mentors, in building a group of people who know the musician.

There is a lot to the process and yes, it is different for strings because a)they start sooner than any other instrument other than piano and b) it is attractive because they are solo instruments (less for the viola, but even there) and that attracts a certain kind of parent and student who have stars in their eyes about soloists being ‘the top of the pyramid’ and the like, so there is a lot of competition and also to be honest a lot of dubious teaching and promoting the kids…

In any event,speaking from experience of the kid who was always seen as being musical but for whatever the reasons seen as being ‘just another kid’, that may very well not mean anything in the long term:).

Yes- The Sun Valley Music Festival.

Following this thread. Thanks for starting it.

My DD is a HS junior who started on piano at age 6 and cello at age 8; she still studies both, and would love to continue studying both in college. She decided to focus on music as she progressed into higher youth orchestras, advanced string quartets, and better summer programs, having opportunities to work with some amazing peers and play in masterclasses with great teachers/performers. I think seeing, meeting, and working with Sheku Kanneh-Mason really locked that in for her.

We’ve only driven the cello. No flights yet, but we’ll see if college options change that.

Camps include Ascent, Credo, and Heifetz. She’s loved things about all of them for different reasons. Based on the faculty, I think she’d like to return to Heifetz so she can work with other potential college teachers.

Schools are mostly in the northeast, as far west as Illinois (NW) and south as TN (Vandy), including Peabody, MSM, Oberlin, Eastman, etc. I think her top picks would be Curtis and NEC. The challenge now is between a Conservatory vs. University with Music School vs. LAC. She originally wanted to pursue a dual-major. She’s since backed off and would like to focus on music, but I think she still likes the idea of non-music minor (or even the possibility of a dual degree). We’re working on scheduling visits and trial lessons; thankfully, she’s worked with a few of her preferred teachers already.

Wrapping up Dvorak and working on Bach. (They’re always working on a Bach.) Everything from here on out will be picked as college audition pieces or to prepare for them (e.g., Popper).

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She can also study for a BMus degree plus a non-music major. Major requirements are easier to fulfill.

I have a feeling we’ll run into you next year. My son is also a junior - similar story: piano since age 4 and cello since age 8 with cello as primary instrument. He also dabbles in composition (piano) and is fascinated with the idea of eventually conducting. His youth orchestra performed La Mer recently and the music director let him conduct the entire first movement in the rehearsal before the concert; but he is well aware he needs to major in cello performance during undergrad before he can pursue conducting in a degree capacity. I drove him to Eastman in November for their “Day at Eastman” and a faculty lesson which was his first official college tour that made this all feel official as he heads into next year. He finished up third movement of Dvorak a couple months ago and recently recorded first movement to use for summer program submissions (plus Bach) but in lessons has moved on to other rep. We’ll be spending April break in NYC doing more tours and getting him lessons. I have also only driven him with the cello and am nervous if he needs to take any west coast auditions as those will require flying.

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Depending on the program he may be able to study conducting while doing cello performance, perhaps as a minor. I don’t know specifically about any individual schools or whether conducting programs would allow that , my son got a performance degree with a minor in music theory for example UG (this was a stand alone conservatory, not a music school in a university) . I would ask the programs your S is interested in, it never hurts to ask.

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Thanks! I wish we could’ve gone to that event at Eastman! How did he (and you) like it?