Chance an Asian olympiad grinder to HYPSM [US citizen outside the US, 4A* predicted A-level, 1550 SAT, physics, cogsci, math]

Chance Me / Match Me
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It is significantly better than the typical applicant, and I wouldn’t be surprised with a HYPSM acceptance or two. That said, I know a student a couple of years ago with a profile just a notch below yours, and he was shut out of all HYPSMs. However, he was admitted to Columbia, Dartmouth and a few other colleges with single digit admit rates.

I agree this will be very important. Hopefully your teachers rave about you, but the die for that has been cast. The one thing you can still control is your essays.

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That’s a very important observation in general. In this particular case, though, I would agree this podcast episode might be an excellent thing for the OP to carefully listen to/read anyway. Basically, they explain in the podcast itself the topic isn’t really about non-US citizens, because they claim that being need blind for Internationals, it isn’t really a different standard for them. So instead the topic is basically about applicants schooled abroad regardless of citizenship:

MARK: So here’s another question. We get all kinds of different flavors of this question. I know the answer is always the same. A few different flavors might be something like, hey, I’m a US citizen, but I live abroad, or I am a dual citizen and I’m in the US, or I’ve lived in three different countries, and I’m actually not sure what my citizenship is, always gets to, do I apply as an international student?

JOHN: Right. And the answer is you don’t apply as an international student. You apply as a student.

MARK: Yes.

HANNAH: Yes.

JOHN: The same admissions processes and financial aid policies apply to all of our applicants, regardless, again, of citizenship or immigration status. So in terms of this podcast, and this conversation, we’re thinking about students schooled abroad. So students for whom their secondary school is located outside the United States. But the way we consider students, the admissions process, the required documents, with the one exception of the English proficiency testing is all the same, right?

HANNAH: Yeah.

By the way, some of what they say on that subject has been touched on already above. Like, for example:

JOHN: Yeah, I think sometimes students will ask the question, am I international student? Am I an international applicant? And that distinction really is not especially important to us because again, the process of evaluating the students is all the same. One thing that is important to keep in mind, though, is there are circumstances or considerations that we do specifically look for in international students. And I’m going to specifically refer to students schooled outside the United States. First, I just want to acknowledge that takes incredible kind of courage to decide to study for undergrad outside of your home country.

HANNAH: Yeah.

JOHN: And sometimes there’s a barrier to entry in terms of fully understanding that experience or just feeling like you’re prepared to apply for that experience. When we do look at applicants who are schooled abroad, we do want to keep in mind the idea of fit. There are so many different ways, both in the United States, but around the world, to receive a great undergraduate education. The experience that we have at Yale, right, a four-year residential liberal arts experience is quite different than you may find at a lot of schools around the world. So we do want to make sure that the students that we’re admitting kind of both understand that and also are going to be good fits for it.

There is further elaboration on these points in the podcast.

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Hopefully your teachers rave about you, but the die for that has been cast. The one thing you can still control is your essays.

Yes, you can’t really rewind and live an entirely different life just because you have decided to apply to US colleges like these.

However, the OP has a long way to go before actually applying in the next cycle. That is plenty of time to really study the various materials these colleges have provided that discuss how they think about holistic review, who is a good fit, and so on. In many cases, I think while there is some overlap, there are also some distinctions, perhaps best described as points of particular emphasis, that emerge. This can help savvy applicants focus on the actual best fits for them when coming up with an application list.

And then you get to their essays, and possibly interviews. And many of these colleges in some way are trying to answer the question of whether you really understand what they offer, and value it, and have a clear vision of how you will contribute to what they are trying to do with their undergrad programs. And if you have been studying these things, reflecting on them, and picking the best-fit colleges for your application list, I think you have done what you can to prepare to write the most thoughtful and compelling essays.

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When I read a “chance me” like this, I actually worry about how the student gets any sleep. I hope you have some down time! This kind of hyper-achievement is sometimes geared to admission to top schools. I hope you have a variety of schools on your list, both private and public (maybe google "little Ivies: as well as Colleges that Change Lives ctcl.org).

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An Asian person who studies/practices hard for Olympiads

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OP, what’s your financial situation looking like? Have you done the Net Price Calculators at various schools to get a sense of what your financial aid would look like? If you’re full pay, look at merit scholarships. Rice, Duke, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, UNC, UToronto, Purdue, OSU, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, URochester are all excellent universities with substantial merit scholarships.

Have you researched computational neuroscience? It might be right up your alley as it seems to be right at the intersection of your interests. Artem Kirsanov has some great videos on YouTube. If you want to go more in depth, check out Introduction — Neuromatch Academy: Computational Neuroscience

Also check out the biophysics book by Phillip Nelson - it covers many areas, including neuronal dynamics, in an accessible manner.

Personally I would indeed give you double digit odds at MIT.

Personally I would recommend natural sciences at Cambridge - OP could take mathematics for the physical sciences course B (pretty intense math methods course), Physics, and Experimental psychology: From Brain to Cognition for three of their four first year modules.

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Also see CWRU: Scholarships | Undergraduate Admission | Case Western Reserve University

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My understanding is that OP is full pay and wanting an international brand name rather than a funded education outside the t20.

Still interested in hearing which safety/likelies OP would consider (which may or may not include CWRU?’ What about in the UK - what other UCAS choices?

OP, where are you planning to live after completing college?

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yes i feel like there is no point of applying safety as I would rather go to one of my UK destinations such as Oxford/Imperial/LSE/UCL, im planning to stay in the US in my 20s then go back to Korea to continue with my family buisness

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While I don’t personally have a problem with that attitude toward US versus UK options, I note it is in tension with the idea of really valuing the US liberal arts tradition and residential college system.

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Those are great UK options though. Yes the systems are different but OP will get a fabulous education even if they miss out on Oxford - the others are probably more sure and are all excellent universities. Won’t be big sports etc but assuming OP is in specific-uni or UoL intercollegiate halls (dorms) will still have a fun residential experience. I think it’s a very valid alternative and tbh one I’d recommend for my own kids if those were the options.

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They are definitely excellent institutions.

However, I think if you truly valued the liberal arts tradition and the residential college experience as offered by US undergrad programs, it wouldn’t typically make much sense to prefer to do your undergrad at a place like, say, LSE.

This is what happens in my experience with many US students not necessarily interested in a typical flagship public experience but concerned about holistic review admissions at the most selective private research universities. They might investigate UK universities because they seem like an interesting option, but when they realize all the differences, they may lose interest. Or in a few cases, they may decide they prefer the UK approach. But the ones who like the US way of doing undergrad will typically find a US option they are excited about in the end, including possibly LACs, honors programs, or so on, in addition to private research universities.

But the idea of your preference being conditional on the US News National Universities ranking of your US options suggests to me perhaps you don’t really value the distinct aspects of the US approach in the first place. And I am not suggesting that is inherently wrong. But AOs for Yale and others have made it clear that isn’t what they are looking for in successful applicants.

Edit: by the way, it isn’t just sports, although obviously that is part of it. In general, the institutional support for and participation in non-academic student activities is radically different.

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Required military service is in your plan?

http://www.mma.go.kr/boardFileDown.do?gesipan_id=160&gsgeul_no=1487113&ilryeon_no=1

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Yes i am, either after the first year at uni or after i graduate but i havent decided yet.

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Yes, but we don’t know that that is what OP is after. All we really know is that they want a prestigious institute, and having gone to at least secondary school in the UK is perhaps already more aligned with that system.

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Yes, I actually think it is pretty clear the OP does not put a lot of value on those aspects of the US higher education system. I am open to being corrected, but I asked earlier about that and they did not respond.

Which again I would not suggest is somehow wrong of them. They are entitled to value higher education for whatever reasons they choose.

The issue I was flagging, which I think is important for the OP to consider, is that the admissions officers at the OP’s target US universities are typically looking for applicants who do value those things, and indeed have a vision for not only how they will benefit from such an undergrad experience, but also contribute back for the benefit of the experiences of others.

And at least some of those AOs, such as the ones at Yale, have actually made it explicit that they are looking to weed out applicants who do not share those values, before further considering who they actually want to admit.

All of which I think is relevant to “chancing” the OP for those colleges.

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hey thank you for flagging this up.

I don’t know how I would be judged here, but I want to be honest with you guys. Yes, I did purposefully dodge the question above. I have a lot of pressure and expectation from family and have a personal reason to strive for these high ‘prestige’ universities. To be blunt, my goal is prestige not the actual college institute. I understand that this may be frowned upon by some. But everybody has a different experience and background and I believe there is no one ‘superior’ intent for applying to a college.

However, I do understand that AOs do put a high value on the liberal arts traditions mentioned above. Again, I am not sure how this would sound (not very well I assume), but I feel like I can ‘fabricate’ to love the aspects that AOs are explicitly looking for in a student. I believe it is impossible for an admissions officer to truly determine the ‘passion’ of an applicant through a series of essays or a short interview.

You can correct me but I feel like if I dedicate enough time to perfect my essay- this does not mean grammatically correct or just good- but a truly unique essay which the AOs like (whether the passion i describe in the essay is real or not), I demonstrate these values to the AOs.

This is the response I have been purposely avoiding in this forum because I was ashamed of it and was not sure how it would’ve been interpreted as.

I hope this is a adequate response.

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Being unique is overrated. Being authentic will never go out of style.

I get that you are under pressure to win some “prestige award” by your college admissions. Which is hard, I know.

But it is less about “standing out” with your application and more about finding something that is authentically YOU and cannot be fabricated.

You can write about how you are much more than the awards you’ve won and the accolades you’ve accumulated– in a humble way. You can connect the dots between your successes and your values (surely there is more to you than winning prestigious things).

Or- you can just decide that a UK university (Oxbridge if it all goes well, UCL or LSE if it doesn’t; they are pretty terrific backups) is the way to go. Not a bad plan.

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I’m definitely not going to judge you for your intentions. But I will offer a couple thoughts for your consideration.

One thought, which is sort of reinforcing something I mentioned above, is you do have some time before applying in the next cycle. So, it is not necessarily impossible for your authentic values to actually evolve, including perhaps through study and reflection. You of course have to be open to that process, which is up to you again, but I wanted to mention it as a possibility.

My other observation is I personally think it is harder to fabricate a convincing application on these issues than some would like to believe. Part of the problem is it isn’t just a matter of essays, it is also a matter of your recommendations, your transcript, your activity choices, really almost your whole application in one way or another. And since we basically know these AOs are on the lookout for people trying to fabricate convincing applications, they just need to suspect something is off to decide to move on to another application. They don’t need proof.

All that said–you can apply with your current plan and see what happens. Maybe you will succeed and get some US offers. I wouldn’t suggest it has never happened. And if it doesn’t work, well, your UK plans are in fact very good alternatives.

I’m just mentioning this because I do think you have time to try a somewhat different plan. If you would like.

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I also note if you write authentic applications, then you know whatever offers you get will be because the AOs thought your authentic self would thrive at their college. You still have to evaluate that question for yourself as well, but that’s pretty valuable information in my view.

Of course I understand this way of thinking may be overwhelmed by family or peer pressures. Still, you are ultimately the one who has to live your life, and I think there can be ways of making sure you are heading down a path that actually makes sense for you without “tipping off” such outsiders as to your exact thinking.

It isn’t great if that is necessary, of course, but I would personally rather do that than end up at the wrong sort of undergrad institution for me.

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