That’s true. I guess I just don’t want to assume I have a higher shot at something than I actually do.
I already have the assured and affordable schools. I’ll be automatically admitted into UNC Charlotte and App State because of my GPA. I know my parents will be able to pay for them.
That’s interesting. I don’t live in a super rural county, so it might be harder for me to get into UNC. I would say what my county is in a private message, but I don’t want to write it here for everyone to see.
They are fine schools - if they are right for you, it doesn’t matter if an NC State is a bigger name…if you don’t like, you don’t like.
There’s lots of schools you’d be admitted to - I think you’ll do a lot better than you think. But you should find the kind of school you’d like - you’ll have options.
You have safety valves, now apply for some you really like with decent odds and then some you really like with high odds - only if you want to.
Kids choose safeties every day. Both mine got into highly ranked programs and chose safeties - so that’s key as you’ll be there four years. Find the one that fits you, not a higher # on the US News page.
While schools logically more fall on a continuum than into discrete buckets, ultimately the point behind distinguishing Reaches from Targets is just that you assess the odds are likely against you with Reaches, but it is still realistically possible, and then close to even or better with Targets, but not so likely as to make them Likelies.
And because the probabilities are not independent, while sometimes some people get into some of their Reaches and not others, it is fairly common for people to get into none of their Reaches, even if they were carefully chosen. And in fact the same thing can happen with Targets, which is why you need some Likelies, but it happens a lot less often that people get blanked by a reasonable list of Targets than by a reasonable list of Reaches.
So functionally, if you have done a good job categorizing your schools, you MIGHT get into one or more Reaches, you PROBABLY will get into one or more Targets, and you will ALMOST CERTAINLY get into one or more of your Likelies.
I note in my circles, it is actually pretty common for kids to end up attending one of their Targets, or at least a school on their individualized Reach/Target borderline (we sometimes call these softer Reaches, harder Targets, or so on, but again in truth it is a continuum so these labels don’t really matter). Sometimes that happens because the kid is blanked by all their harder Reaches. But sometimes as they are making their final decision about which offer to take, they don’t in fact choose the most selective college that admitted them anyway.
Sometimes cost, including through merit, is involved. Sometimes honors programs. Sometimes special academic programs or curriculum structures. Sometimes they particularly like a campus. Sometimes a location. Sometimes a vibe. Who knows?
Point being, I would personally NOT neglect the process of finding some really good Targets. Because if you do a good job with that part of your list, you may well end up choosing one of those.
ETA: By the way, you should do the same with your Likelies, meaning choose them very carefully. But I think practically, kids with high numbers who are interested in LACs and/or private research universities more often do end up choosing a Target than a Likely. Not always, but often enough that again I would make a point of putting a lot of thought into which colleges you would probably prefer to your Likelies, but are not going to be as hard for admissions as your Reaches.
We toured Agnes Scott and my daughter strongly considered it but it felt a little far away from home. It has an A- rating financially instead of an A. I certainly don’t think it is going to fail in the 4 years that you would be there. It’s is very diverse and the Summit program is appealing. Worth a visit if you can swing it. Walkable to Decatur with lots of cute shops and restaurants. We felt like it had a great vibe.
As for Davidson I think that is a Target/Toss up for you. You can look at section C of the Common Data Set and see your GPA and scores would slot in very well: https://www.davidson.edu/media/9718/download?attachment
Also note that they place a lot of emphasis on a strong letter of recommendation.
BTW you can search “Common Data Set” and the name of any college you are interested in and see if they do it. Most, but not all, colleges do have it available.
Thank you for the explanation. Do my targets seem okay right now? I would be happy if I ended up at any of them, and I might choose one of them over a reach school if I have the option. I’ve tried to choose them carefully. However, I’m worried that I’m overestimating my chances at some schools (like Rochester, Bryn Mawr, Macalester, etc.) I’m also hoping for merit at most of my targets. Is that realistic?
Where do you find the financial ratings of colleges? It’s interesting that Agnes Scott has an A- rating when I’ve been hearing about how much it’s struggling. I’d think about Agnes Scott more if I knew it was stable. It seems like a nice school, but I’m worried that it won’t have good enough academics for what I want to study.
Thanks for the information on Davidson.
So I think these are some good baseline criteria (my S24’s feederish private HS started here), which you can then tweak for various individual reasons:
So let’s take Rochester, for example. Rochester has around a 40% admit rate (and no real funny business for specific majors, no OOS difference, or so on). So it certainly can be a Target.
Next we need to check your numbers against their reported numbers for enrolled students. They last reported 75th SATs of 1510 composite, 750 EBRW, and 780 M, and 75th ACT of 34, so you are just above that, which is good (and more on that in a second). 24.33% had a GPA of 4.0, so again that is also good for you. The only real hiccup is 84.6% had a top tenth class rank, but in your particular case I think they will understand that is not a meaningful measure because of your change in schools. As an aside, it would probably help if you got some really good teacher recommendations.
OK, so I would suggest Rochester scores as a solid Target for you. And in fact, because for the most part your numbers place you in their top 25th, I do in fact think you might be competitive for merit. It is hard to know what a college like Rochester will do with merit, but I believe they would likely see you as desirable, and part of what they might think about would be how realistic a chance of landing you they might get with a good merit award.
I note per their CDS, 23% of first-year students without need received a merit scholarship, for an average of $17,238 annually. Again, your numbers being in their top 25% of enrolled students is a promising start, but even if you do get an offer, how much that offer would be is a very open question.
Which leads me to my last observation, that Rochester says in their CDS that “Level of applicant’s interest” is not just Considered, but actually Important. So, to make sure Rochester is in fact not just a solid Target for admissions, but also a realistic possibility for serious merit, I would make sure to demonstrate a lot of interest, and also be thoughtful about your essays.
OK, so we can speed this along because the good news is your numbers (and ignoring class rank, which again in your case is fair) are so high that I know they will be at least in the middle, and in fact usually in the top 25th, for typical Target/possible-merit colleges.
So, Macalester, acceptance rate around 29%, 36% of first years without need got merit, average of $18,937. I think still a solid Target for you, but maybe a little harder Target than Rochester. Not a Reach, though. And actually, maybe a bit more promising on merit . . . although really it is just a try and see situation.
Finally, Bryn Mawr, again acceptance rate around 29%, 17% of students without need getting merit, average $5438. OK, still solid Target for admissions, merit, though—not impossible, but maybe more of a merit Reach than a merit Target. I think Bryn Mawr is great, though, so I wouldn’t discourage you from applying. It is is just good to have schools like Rochester or Macalester as Targets as well.
And of course Kalamazoo (29% getting merit, with an average of $48583 (!)), Wooster (29% and $39386), and St Olaf (21% and $31697). Realistically, those are substantially more likely shots at getting bigger merit offers, but again, it is fine to take your other shots too and see what happens.
Just to complete the picture, you also have Case (37% and $30499, good choice!), and Mount Holyoke (17% and $25303, not bad!).
OK, so overall, I meant it above when I said I liked your list as soon as I saw it! The private colleges and universities you have in the middle of your list all seem properly categorized to me, all do have merit, and I think for you, realistic merit. I don’t know what any one will do, but I definitely think it is reasonable to be hopeful that between them you will end up with multiple competitive merit offers.
So this is why budget matters. Someone earlier said - but she’s full pay even though you’ve said $40k.
College has a cost. Some with merit cost more than others full pay.
I believe you will get into all three but that if you are full pay, even with merit you won’t get close to $40k.
So this is why you need to talk to mom and dad up front - because you can’t waffle between well we could pay full but I’d like merit. Well you could but you’ll end up with schools that potentially mom and dad will nix.
So when you say I hope to get in with merit, I will again ask - what’s the budget? - and the response shouldn’t be but we can pay more. Can and willing to are two different things.Merit in and of itself doesn’t matter. Total cost does.
Some families, both kids and parents, are fine with a flexible approach, at least within a potentially broad range, where they see what offers they get and then decide where the tradeoff between personal value and cost of attendance is optimal.
Obviously the success of that sort of approach depends on a certain amount of trust, good communication, and shared values between kid and parents, but some families have all that.
I said I was hoping for merit, but I don’t necessarily need it to attend the school. I know not to expect below $40k for a lot of these schools. Bryn Mawr’s highest merit scholarship is only $45k, and I doubt I can even get that.
I said less than $40k would be most ideal, but my family can pay more. My parents truly are not giving me a budget at the moment. I’ve had this conversation with them loads of times. They are tired of me talking about this to them. They always say they want me to go somewhere where I can be happy, thrive, grow, etc. They said that they are willing to invest in my undergrad experience because they think its a very formative time in a person’s life.
However, I don’t want my parents for very much. That’s why I was asking about merit scholarships. I chose the $40k number because I thought it would cause the least strain on my family. But my parents have expressed willingness to pay more.
Thank you for the time to write all this. It was quite informative. It’s a good thing I would be happy to go to St Olaf or Kalamazoo if I got in. That would make the college application process much less stressful.
But then you should just say, can I get in ? The answer is you likely get into all 3 - with merit.
But none of the three approaching $40k. $60k plus.
I think you should take your parents at their word, unless something unusual is going on (parent facing job loss; your family is about to begin paying assisted living costs for a grandparent, etc.)
It took my kids a bit of time to reconcile what they saw as our somewhat frugal lifestyle (compared to their friends) and our assurances that we wanted the best fit for them in college. Disney? Never went, couldn’t afford it. Swim club over the summer? Didn’t join, wasn’t in the budget. So the kids go used to the notion that expenses past food, medical, mortgage would cause us strain.
But we had been saving since they were born specifically for college. That’s what the money was for. We weren’t going to buy them a condo with it if they ended up getting a full ride somewhere. We weren’t planning to give it to them as a reward for choosing the cheapest option for college. It was for their education.
And nothing I have ever paid for, owned, bought, etc. has brought me more delight than watching them in college, after college, and now as working adults. Nothing.
So If they have reassured you that 40K is NOT the hard limit, I think you should trust them.
Sorry if I was unclear. I would like merit, so that’s why I was asking my chances for it. However, I don’t necessarily need it. Thanks for your help.
Based on your interest in philosophy, you may want to keep Hamilton’s summer program in philosophy in mind, which will accept your application from whichever college you attend:
But would they be ok if all of your admission offers were $90-100k?
The net price calculators for most of the schools did not get that high. Mount Holyoke, Bryn Mawr, Amherst, Swarthmore, etc. were all less than $90k. I’m also hoping for merit at schools like Kalamazoo and Wooster. If none of those options work out then I have safeties, which I know would be affordable. UNC Chapel Hill would also be affordable if I got in.
Well, I’m not saying don’t apply to UNC; if you don’t, then your chances of getting in are 0.0, so of course apply! I mention the issue about more balanced representation over all counties in NC for the purpose of tempering admissions expectations somewhat.
I’ll try to be reasonable about the probability of my admission. How much harder is it to get into UNC from a competitive county? My school seems to have a lot of admits to UNC, but most people are aiming for NC State.