I think that your school’s guidance counselor would be the person who is best situated to answer this question. You can also ask him/her specifically about balanced admissions to UNC, they should probably know about it. (Also, it’s never a bad thing to have face time with your guidance counselor; they can be very helpful!)
As a general observation, although guidance counselors at even very good public high schools are sometimes overworked and wearing many hats besides just college counseling, I think in most cases one of the things they are quite good at doing is helping their college-bound students understand which in-state universities are realistic for them.
The dedicated college counselors at feederish private high schools with far fewer assigned students may have an advantage when it comes to supporting individualized explorations of private and OOS options. And that is where I think the Chance/Match Me threads here can really add value sometimes, like collectively we can offer that same sort of very broad in scope and yet personally-tailored advising support.
But in-state publics? Again, in most cases I would trust the guidance counselor to have the time and experience to give good advice on that subject.
I agree with you 100% on all your points. Also, I know that for my kids’ private high school, there was access to Naviance by parents and students, which was very helpful for historical admissions information (among other things).
And with regard to public high school guidance counselors, especially where they are overworked and/or are wearing many different hats for all of their many students, I think the more times a student can have a meaningful interaction with a GC, the better. (It can be a case of “the squeaky wheel gets the grease” for students sometimes, in terms of getting that quality time with GCs.)
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Based on your interest in math, physics and philosophy, inclination toward even broader exploration and desire for an intimate academic environment, consider adding Hamilton.
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I might make an appointment with her eventually, but it’s a bit of a hassle. She’s never there on time, so I end up missing a lot of class. She also probably has a lot of better things to do (our school has a low graduation rate). That’s mostly why I’ve been trying to find out all my information online. My school also doesn’t have Naviance or anything like that.
My high school is definitely not considered very good or close to a feeder, so I don’t know how that affects things. I might talk to her about in-state publics, but I don’t know how much she’ll know. It’s kind of embarrassing to talk to her now, because I cried the first time meeting her. She might not want to help me.
No need to hope - schools like these, Susquehanna, Furman, Rhodes, Allegheny, Ursoinus, Juniata, Washington College, Drew, Hobart and more will woo you with $$ beyond any expectation.
You are in a power position here with lower ranked, easier to get in schools. Or look at a school like Hartwick - they just priced so low not even bothering with merit yet still offer up to $10k.
You are concerned about your position but have no need to be with third tier schools.
They will throw crazy money at you.
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I’ve heard of St. John’s. They send me a ton of mail. It sounds like an interesting experience, and I like the idea of learning without the emphasis on grades. It also is relatively close to home and to my grandparents, which might be nice. However, I am kind of concerned about the lack of majors. I like reading, but I hate writing essays. I worry that I won’t be able to focus on things like math and physics as much. I know you said it has a high rate of grad school admission, but do you know if it’s different rates for subjects more on the science side of things?
Sorry if this is a silly question, but why would they give me a lot of money? Do they want students that badly? I wouldn’t mind going to a lower ranked school, especially if I get a good scholarship, but I don’t want to go somewhere in danger of closing. Are any of the schools you mentioned having trouble? Do they provide a quality education and have enough resources for students?
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Yes in many cases …
You’ve mentioned K.
Many schools, public and private, have had cuts due to the governmental actions. It’s why you see schools from publics like WVU and Arizona to privates like Brandeis, Clark, American and more making cuts.
Schools are businesses - they need revenues, preferably to outweigh expenses.
The notion that they are an enterprise simply for the betterment of society is past.
You can measure a school’s health up front - Forbes does so. Moody’s rates colleges ability to pay debt. I don’t see any I’ve mentioned in danger but even the strongest have made cuts. Part of it is thanks to the govt pulling grants - so even the Ivies.
Why would schools throw money at you ?
Supply and Demand. More supply than demand. Even top schools like Case Western - 1 of 7 accepted attend. So they’ve started to buy deeper to encourage schools to pick them. Most families do have budget restrictions or desires.
Excellent but not as known or in demand privates like I mentioned above and more, couldn’t find people to pay full. It’s just bang for the buck. You don’t pay $400 for a Holiday Inn Express. So to keep a flow of revenue, they have to buy kids in. You are a stud so are helpful to their rep. They’ll pay even more to get you.
I would find the right school for you. No matter which it is, they’ll be belt tightening. It’s just how it is today. Even the UNCa of the world and Ivies aren’t immune.
So keep your path but if you end up with a cost desire, given your stats, many will come through for you.
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Actually I think that this is a very good question. Both daughters were offered merit aid for undergrad. One might wonder: Why?
One issue is that universities like to have students who are likely to do well. It looks good in terms of the evaluation of the university to have students who actually attend, and then graduate in four years, and then go on to have a good career.
Sometimes if universities have many students who do well, a few of them might eventually be very successful in life and then donate significant money back to the university.
And some universities might have received some gifts from alumni (often their more successful alumni) which are specifically earmarked for merit aid for incoming students. They might as well accept the donations because it will help them attract strong students. Then they have to give it as merit aid because that is what they agreed to when they accepted the money.
A student who is coming out of high school with straight A’s is likely to still be a good student when they arrive at university (no guarantee, but it is likely – you earned those A’s for a reason), and having good students in general on average can make the college or university look good.
And I think that universities are full of people who just believe that doing well in academic classes is a good thing.
I am not sure that this is a complete answer to your question.
One thing that does occur to me however: In many cases universities provide merit aid to students who are in the top 1/2 of the incoming students, or maybe who are in the top 1/4 of the incoming students. Admissions to graduate programs of almost any kind can be helped by very good grades in undergraduate courses. Coming in as a student in the top 1/2 or even top 1/4 of the incoming undergraduate class might help you be at least a bit more prepared to get these strong grades as an undergraduate student. However, you should also understand that on average classes in university will tend to be more difficult than high school classes. You should expect to need to work hard in university even if you do arrive in the first place in the top 1/4 of incoming students.
I do know or have known a number of people who attended universities that were not the highest ranked school that they could have gotten into, got quite a bit of merit aid, probably started in the top 1/4 of their undergraduate class, did very well, and then went on to higher ranked programs for some form of graduate school. This is a relatively common experience among very academically strong students. Of the students I can think of, none of them attended a university that was in any danger at all of shutting down, nor that was having significant financial difficulty. Many were however students who like you had very strong high school academic records, but who had at least some reason to not want to be full pay for undergrad.
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Don’t forget - there are also different upfront price points. That’s why I always note merit, per se, doesn’t matter. Cost does. Merit gets to a cost.
Purdue is low 40s all in. U Michigan and UVA double. Are they that different ? UF is mid $40s and ranked very high.
Then there are schools that cost more about have auto merit. U Alabama has amongst the most NMF in the country. They essentially go free. They don’t get food but get $4k a year.
Bama, Ole Miss, Miss Staye, UAH and more - this student is low 20s because of their accomplishments. Others are $40, 50k. So many have merit tables so you can see up front.
But to OP - Williams, Colgate, Tufts etc - they know people will pay $95k a year. No way that same family will spend that on Depauw, Furman, K, even Miami, Case Western, SMU, or other well known names. They have to pay to get them.
Better to have students than not.
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Colleges offer merit scholarships (or “preferentially packaged” need-based financial aid) to students they especially want. Usually, these are applicants whose academic and other credentials are at the high end of the admitted class. The goal is to increase the academic reputation of the college, so that it becomes more attractive to future prospective students, who are then more likely to apply and attend (and pay a greater percentage of list price than current students).
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You may be offered merit scholarship recognition because you have earned it. You can evaluate the general attributes of any college offering you a merit award as you would those of any other college.
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It’s a different way of doing college. The idea is that you, and everyone, are exposed to the same ‘bit’ of everything. You deeply discuss original works with the overarching aim of developing critical thinking skills, possibly the most important benefit of college, but often only done in a roundabout way. At St. John’s, it is explicit.
You do not concentrate on math, philosophy, physics, etc., but rather on a broad cross-section of areas, usually from original source material. The degree itself is described as a “double major in history of math & science, and philosophy; and a double minor in classics and comparative literature.” The program has what are called ‘perceptuals’ where you delve into areas of interest at a deep level, e.g., calculus, my personal area of interest these days, foundations of quantum physics (in fact, they have announced they want to do more quantum physics in the standard program) - it is negotiated with your professors (at St. John’s called Tutors who you know on a first name basis).
Of course, critical thinking is of great value in and of itself, but it doesn’t prepare you for an actual job or career. Thats why it’s important to look at the after St. John’s section on their website and the master’s programs they have agreements with other universities (usually the well-respected University of Chicago). If you are interested in quantum foundations, like I am, the master’s to consider would be Master’s in Quantum Engineering, or, while not a school they have an association with, Chapman University: Doctor of Science in Mathematics, Philosophy and Physics (admission is via a master’s in either one of those or related fields).
St Johns would be an excellent preparation for that program plus one of the masters programs they have agreements with.
I hated essays at school. But once you actually get a job, it is vital, as I found out. Writing papers at college will pay off big time later. Writing proficiency: the more senior your position is in an organisation, the greater its value.
It is a niche school. You will study things you love (in my case, math), things that are ho-hum (in my case, psychology), things that bore me (literature), and things I actually hate (foreign languages). However, as a preparation for what actually interests you, and even discovering what interests you, gives a wide perspective, and of course, that important skill, critical thinking. Also remember, no actual grades, no pressure, etc.; the emphasis is learning how to think by discussing ideas with others - the professors act as facilitators.
It is not everyone’s cup of tea, but there is only one way to find out - plan a visit, attend a discussion group, and have a chat with students and professors.
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I think it is worth noting faculty are important stakeholders in colleges and universities, and faculty want students they enjoy teaching.
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Thank you for your in depth reply. I know that the current administration has been targeting universities, which has led to many places cutting programs. I know it would be hard to avoid that when I go to college. However, I’m mostly worried about the small liberal arts colleges that are facing a shortage of students and funds. Hampshire closing made me anxious about the future of other small colleges. Although places like UNC and Harvard are facing difficulties, they are not in danger of closing.
I’ll keep your advice in mind when choosing a college. Thank you for your time.
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Hampshire closing was many years in the making, not really much to do with this administration I don’t think.
There’s a thread on closing. I personally, wouldn’t have worry on those recommended. If and that’s a big thing - but if they had issues it’d be many years down the line. These are good, solid names. They can be researched for finances ahead of time - again Forbes rates health (you’d see some big names with a C and some you hadn’t heard of with higher grades). Moody’s has bond ratings.
With publics, sometimes your risk is the closing of programs due to DEI or rights typed things - so whether Studies - black, Chicano, gender or more - the administration is taking diverse learning away.
It’s good you are thinking but I’m quite confident you can find a sub 40 - you’ve wavered back and forth on that - school - that will be here for decades and decades to come. So many are taking actions, in fact, so they can survive.
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