Chance/Match Michigan resident for UMich and OOS schools - 4.0 GPA, 1440 SAT [civil or aerospace engineering]

  • Michigan Resident - Im a male

  • Rural (ish) public school

  • Price is not a factor for me in admissions (thanks to my dad)

  • Civil/Environmental Engineering or Aerospace (undecided)

  • GPA: 4.0 (UW), 4.44 (W)

  • All honors and AP courses are weighted on a 5 point scale

  • Class Rank: 1/188

  • Current Test scores: 1440 SAT (took again in June, expecting a higher score (1480+))

  • 1480 PSAT/NMSQT - 224 Selection Index

  • Coursework: (9th,10th,11th, then plans for 12th)

  • English: Advanced English 10, Honors English 11, AP English Lit, (debating whether to take ap lang next year) - im the first student at my HS to take Ap lit as a junior.

  • Math: Algebra 2, Precalc + AP stats, AP calc Ab, AP Calc BC

  • Science: Physical Science, Biology, Adv. Chemistry, (Ap Chem, Ap Bio, Physics) - all 12th

  • History and social studies: World History, Apush, Ap gov + Ap Psych, (Maybe Ap Human geography - debating whether to take this or ap lang)

  • Took up to spanish 2

  • Took an elective art class freshman year

  • Took both ap micro and ap macro online

  • I will have taken 13 aps by the time I graduate.

  • AP scores so far:

  • APush - 5

  • Ap stats - 5

  • Calc ab - ?

  • Eng. lit - ?

  • Ap gov - ?

  • Ap Psych - ?

  • Will get the questioned scores back this summer.

  • Awards:

  • School honors award (10th, 11th)

  • Scholar Athlete award (9th, 10th, 11th)

  • Regional Medals at math and science competiton (county wide - my county has a population of abt 400k) Statistics 2nd place (10th), Calculus 3rd place (11th)

  • 99% sure I will be a national merit semifinalist

  • Those college board awards they give for a sat score in the 90th+ percentile.

  • Extracurriculars

  • Quiz Bowl (9th - 12th (im assuming)) (2.5 hrs per week 30 weeks a year)

  • JV Captain in 9th grade, Varisty member 10th-12th, Assuming ill be captain my senior year. Team has won county league every year I’ve participated and placed 8th in the state competition both my 10th and 11th grade years. I placed 15th out of abt. 150 individually (best on my team)

  • Varsity bowling (9th - 12th) not much to say about this. I enjoy it. I kinda suck though so I haven’t won anything. (6 hrs a week 15 weeks a year)

  • Volunteering at my local church’s after service breakfast. I work in the kitchen preparing food and such as well as set up and clean up (40 hrs - only started my junior year)

  • Countywide math and science competition (9th - 11th) I’ve medaled twice as mentioned in my awards.

  • NHS member my 11th and 12th grade years

  • Essay and LORs

  • My common app essay is a solid 9/10 (I’ve been writing it for months - its extremely personal)

  • My LORs:

  • AP lit teacher: 10/10

  • Honors English 11/Quiz bowl coach: 10/10

  • Ap Calculus teacher: 8/10

  • Schools:

  • Umich ann arbor - Likely (Instate)

  • MSU - extremely likely

  • Kettering university - extremely likely

  • Notre dame - Low probability

  • Wisconsin Madison & Illinois Urbana Champaign - Likely

  • UChicago & Northwestern - Very low probability

  • UVA - Low probability

  • Harvard - Very low probability (Dad is an HBS alum but that won’t help)

  • Would like to hear any other matches

Not sure UM is likely.

Kettering is an interesting choice. Are you interested in automotive? If so, you may consider some of the southern schools as the auto plants are down there - Bama, Auburn, etc. or schools with SAE or ecoCAR - Bama, WVU, Ga Tech. Lots of schools have Formula SAE.

If you like Michigan, other like schools that are likely include Wisconsin, UMN (safety) and Ohio State - but would you choose them over MSU?

If you like Northwestern, look at Syracuse.

If you like Harvard - look at Cornell which is arguably stronger.

If you like Kettering, then RHIT or Clarkson might fit - small schools.

If you get NMF, then you have some lucrative options - Tulsa free, Bama 5 years free tuition, 4 years housing and $4K a year, UTD, U Houston (free tuition) and more.

For UND, maybe Villanova is a sub or St. Louis U. Or U Dayton.

Good luck.

Id add private colleges that may give you a lot of merit scholarships. This would also give you a small school experience rather than the bigger state colleges if you want.

RPI
Lehigh
Olin
Case Western

Come to mind as engineering focused schools.

UVA engineering is small. VTech is better in engineering but a tough transit from Michigan.

You’re instate for UMich so I think it’s likely. You’ll probably get MSU.

My kid is OOS UMich in data science and enjoys his classmates very much. The school is definitely challenging. Just a warning that some intro classes filled up last semester so that students had trouble registering. AP exams do not help with UMich registration priority but community classes do improve your registration time.

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I don’t think either of these is likely for OOS Engineering. More like low reaches.

Also, the more competitive schools on your list normally recommend more than two years of foreign language.

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Congratulations in such a fine high school career with so many impressive achievements. :+1:

Aeronautical Engineering is not offered at a lot of colleges. The following colleges from your list do not offer it:

MSU
Kettering
Notre Dame
Wisconsin
Chicago
Harvard

So, if you want to keep your options open fir Aeronautical Engineering and want to explore thus field, why keep these schools on your list. Maybe keep MSU as an instate safety?

I’d replace these schools with some of the following:

MIT instead of Harvard
RPI instead of Kettering
Ohio State instead of Wisconsin
Princeton or Cornell instead of Chicago
Maryland or Virginia Tech instead of Notre Dame

This is a very difficult time to make predictions about matches. First, there will be fewer Hugh school graduates next year and so there will likely be fewer college applicants. How this will impact the top colleges you’re applying Tomis unknown. Second, due to the current political situation, there will likely be fewer international students attending American colleges although there are so many uncertainties here that this is hard to predict. Because international students are typically full pay, domestic full pay students like yourself should be in greater demand. Colleges which were previously need blind might start looking at ability to pay as a factor. With many colleges facing the loss if government funds, they have to maintain their revenue stream and bringing in more full pay applicants is one way for them to do that.

Because of the two factors I just stated, I would be optimistic about your chances at top colleges although these are still reaches. While they are unlikely, someone will be getting into these schools, so you might as well take your shot and see if it’s you.

RPI should be a solid admit for you, and I’d start my list there. You won’t get a better engineering education anywhere. Out of state anywhere is always hard to predict. You have a lot of solid choices there which look good. If you want to stretch your geographic boundaries, you might consider places like Georgia Tech and Cal Ploy SLO.

Best of luck.

You may want to take some English course next year, because many colleges do not see English as a strictly leveled subject like math or foreign language when they want to see “4 years” of it. But they likely see it as a loosely leveled subject, so an English elective (perhaps at a college) more advanced than frosh composition or AP English literature would be the best choice for your fourth year.

Also, many more selective colleges want to see higher than level 2 of foreign language.

I’m stuck on two years of a foreign language. Im not allowed to take a third year of Spanish online and the in person hour is a direct conflict with my science APs

Congratulations on your strong performance in high school! As the top student in your class you’ve shown that you’re excelling in your environment, and with a 224 Selection Index in MI, you should certainly qualify as a NMSF (and subsequent NMF, if you complete the paperwork on time).

What is it that you want out of your college experience? I mostly see big state schools, but then there are some mid-sized schools, and a small tech school. Were these selected because they’re the ones you’re most familiar with, or what was the particular attraction?

The questions below might help you think about what you want from college:

  • What size classes do you do best in?
  • What size school do you prefer?
  • How do you feel about Greek life (fraternities/sororities)?
  • How do you feel about significant enthusiasm for intercollegiate sports?
  • Are there areas of the country that you prefer (or prefer to avoid)?
  • Type of climate that you prefer (or prefer to avoid)?
  • Are there particular interests (outside of your potential major) that you would like to pursue?
  • Are there any other factors (like religion or politics) that will play a role in your college choice?

Additionally, because you are extremely likely to be a NMF, you may want to have a conversation with your family about whether they would be willing to have your college funds go to a different expense (like a down payment, start-up funding for a business, grad school, etc) if you attend a school that creates significant savings on college expenses, and then think whether that is something of value to you or not.

You don’t have to take AP level of all three of biology, chemistry, and physics.

Im taking regular physics, my school doesn’t offer the advanced placement class. For me, i gauged physics as a requirement for these selective schools and the foreign language as a recommendation (beyond 2 years) is that correct to your knowledge?

As I reflect, besides Umich being a great opportunity for me instate and my top choice, I would greatly prefer a smaller school and could care less about sports and greek life.

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For aero - UAH. Smaller, inexpensive with automerit, and surrounded by aero. Huntsville is the 2nd home of NASA.

Embry Riddle and Florida Tech are private aero focused schools with great merit.

As one student told us on our ERAU visit, when a plane takes off at Daytona, all eyes look up.

To @Bill_Marsh point - there are focused schools - and grads do well.

Good luck

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You definitely need some kind of physics and chemistry as a prospective engineering major, with AP as a bonus.

But AP biology after regular biology may not be as useful, and level 2 foreign language may be seen as insufficient by some more selective colleges. “Recommended” is often interpreted as “required if available to you”.

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But OP will have great options, even if not Michigan which doesn’t sound right for their desires or Notre Dame.

Lots of great engineering schools and for an aero/MechE, the name on the diploma is unlikely to matter short of a few schools.

So if taking more science isn’t of interest, they’ll be fine admissions wise.

Of course aero will be math and physics on steroids so it’d be nice to know.

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You definitely need to take a physics class. I agree with @ucbalumnus that AP Chem would be a bonus (but not 100% necessary as you have already taken Chem), while AP Bio isn’t as necessary for an engineering applicant (since you have already taken Bio). Could you fit in a 3rd year of foreign language if you dropped Bio?

I also think that AP Human Geography doesn’t have as much value for you as other options. Four years of English would be a better idea, and I like the suggestion by @ucbalumnus to seek out a more advanced English elective. It doesn’t necessarily have to be AP. My D26 will be taking a senior level non-AP creative writing class. My S23 took a senior level non-AP class on world mythology.

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Based on this statement, I would strongly reconsider almost your entire list of schools. Below are a number of schools that you may want to consider. They lean towards tech schools, but if you prefer schools that are more academically balanced, there are other suggestions that can be made.

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • Clarkson (NY): About 2500 undergrads

  • Florida Institute of Technology: About 3500 undergrads

  • Marquette (WI): About 7700 undergrads

  • Michigan Tech: About 5900 undergrads

  • Missouri Science & Technology: About 5500 undergrads

  • South Dakota School of Mines & Technology: About 2200 undergrads

  • U. of Alabama – Huntsville: About 6900 undergrads

  • Wentworth Institute of Technology (MA): About 3800 undergrads

Likely (60-79%)

  • Colorado School of Mines: About 5800 undergrads

  • Illinois Institute of Technology: About 3300 undergrads

  • Milwaukee School of Engineering (WI): About 2700 undergrads

  • Rensselaer Polytechnic (NY): About 6k undergrads

  • Rose-Hulman (IN): About 2200 undergrads

  • Worcester Polytechnic (MA): About 5500 undergrads

Toss-Up (40-59%)

  • Stevens Institute of Technology (NJ): About 4100 undergrads

Lower Probability (20-39%)

  • Case Western (OH): About 6200 undergrads

  • Cooper Union (NY): About 900 undergrads

  • Lafayette (PA ): About 2800 undergrads

  • Lehigh (PA ): About 5800 undergrads

Low Probability (less than 20%)

  • Carnegie Mellon (PA ): About 7300 undergrads

  • Massachusetts Institute of Technology: About 4600 undergrads

  • Olin College of Engineering (MA): About 400 undergrads

  • Rice (TX): About 4600 undergrads

You need to look at the cds for each school especially Michigan and act accordingly. Your chances in state are good being the #1 person at a rural school. You could be looking at merit money. You can make Michigan small. But first don’t mess this up not taking the correct classes.

Review the “C” sections.
https://obp.umich.edu/campus-statistics/common-data-set/

Also the recommended section of classes isn’t really recommended. They are telling you what they expect. You can have 3 year’s language but I wouldn’t skimp on any math or science. I can do a deeper dive later tonight or tomorrow but I agree that you don’t need AP bio since you had bio before. AP physics is a definite.
AP psych is not looked at as a rigorous course. But it’s fun.

Also AP Lang over the other one

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I agree that Wisconsin is not a likely for anyone, not even full pays oos. Wisconsin implemented the Wisconsin Guarantee and Direct Admit Wisconsin for this admissions cycle so it will be interesting to see the numbers.

Have you looked into Saint Louis University? They have aerospace and dual degree programs as well as masters and PhDs in aviation. (my friends daughter attended for engineering, got lots of hands on experience and got into a paid masters program after graduation at another university).

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I looked at umich course requirements. For foreign language, the only school recommending 4 yrs of a language is LSA (All the others have a requirement of 2 years w/o the same recommendation). Based off of this, I feel I should take ap bio instead of a 3rd year of language. Correct me if I’m wrong here.

So since your not applying just to one school I think with your profile a third year language adds value. I also think AP Chem is more value then AP Bio. I don’t know if you’re able to take AP physics.

You are evaluated by your school. So if they don’t offer it you really shouldn’t be penalized. You’re also the top student at your school. Congrats on that. For in-state 1440 is fine. How is that compared to others at your school? That is how you will be judged. If it’s a high mark then great. I would love to see something in the 1500 for engineers. But you shouldn’t be faulted due to your resume.

MSU you would get honors college with merit.

Schools like Madison, UIUC have been harder gets for oos the last few year’s

BTW - I really like the idea that you’re on varsity bowling and “kinda suck” but you enjoy it. I feel an unexpected essay coming on :thinking:…

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