Thanks.
What does the percentage of students in a major tell you?
Bowdoin technically has 0 students who major in ES due to it requiring a second major, but I think it is still known for ES.
Does 3% (Amherst) vs 4% (Macalester) vs 7% (Colby) make a big difference?
not % but actual number of majors is what I consider. With only a handful of majors, there arent’ gonna be many classes offered every term, fewer tenured faculty in the dept, and other such academics.
Colby is better known in Enviro than Bowdoin.
However, those aspects can be looked at more directly by looking at faculty rosters, course catalogs, and class schedules.
In addition to College Navigator, this site can be helpful because it lists the number of first AND second majors in a particular major. This one only lists the results from 2022, but it can still be illuminating:
https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/jonboeckenstedt/viz/BachelorsDegreesAwardedin2022/Dashboard1
It is sometimes hard to determine the number of full time ES faculty since it is so interdisciplinary.
compare Amherst/Bowdoin to Pomona/Pitzer/Scripps.
So by my count there are Lewis and Clark, St Olaf, and UVM in what I would call the Likely range, and Mount Holyoke, Macalester (just barely), Skidmore (just barely), and Scripps (just barely) in the Target range.
I believe that is plenty, assuming you are happy with that list. I’d personally suggest trimming some Reaches even if she doesn’t get into Macalester.
I think that your daughter’s chances at UVM should be very good. We considered it a safety for admissions with stats that were slightly lower than your daughter’s and also being out of state. Some merit aid is possible, and in fact seems likely. It also has a very good environmental sciences program. It is relatively far away for someone from MO, and I am guessing would require two flights (although I have never looked for flights from MO to Burlington Vermont).
We don’t have direct flights to most schools on her list. No direct flights to Burlington, Portland ME, Hartford, Ontario CA.
I would guess the MSP colleges would be good for you, though (assuming you are using either STL or MCI, there should be both a bunch of Delta nonstops and also I believe Southwest out of STL and Sun Country out of MCI).
This has come up a bit in recent Class of 2028 conversations–I would not describe it as mandatory, but I think convenient direct flight is definitely worth considering as a possibly important secondary factor.
Yes, there are direct flights from STL to MSP. Direct flights are definitely nice. S22 has direct flights to Philly. Thanksgiving we are usually in Chicago, so that has more direct flights.
So Colby or Middlebury would be better reaches for ES?
For ES, I was going to recommend that she prioritize doing one batch of visits at the Maine schools (and see Amherst as well if it’s the front-runner), and another at the Minnesota schools. Several of those schools have notable strength in ES, and I’m betting there will be some front-runners for her after just those 2 trips.
Great idea - I bet a Bates Bowdoin Colby Middlebury tour, then a Carleton St Olaf Macalester (adding Grinnell) tour would really help.
We’ve been to St Olaf, Carleton, Macalester, Bates, Colby, Bowdoin, Amherst, and Mount Holyoke. She liked Amherst, Colby, and Macalester best. We have not been to Middlebury.
She texted me that she was bored during advisory today so I had her look at faculty research interests for Amherst, Colby, Macalester, and Middlebury. She liked the ones at Colby and Macalester more than Amherst, but said Middlebury’s website didn’t list enough of them. She is going to email questions to ES majors at those 4 schools.
There’s no school that she can’t apply to - ED or otherwise. This student is certainly capable of getting into any “reach” school.
But the school that she should “reach” for is the one she wants to be - and that you’re willing to pay for.
Those would be the best - vs. game playing - because I’m guessing the student will have a lot of admission success overall.
She is the one who really wants to ED. She says she needs to have a top choice at some point. She also saw her older brother get in ED and then not have to stress all year. I’m just trying to help her find the best options. I am wondering if we should try to visit Middlebury.
Not a bad idea, I would think.
Middlebury definitely has a distinct setting, and many seem to think it also has a pretty clear vibe–and she might love it or hate it, so it would be good to know!
And it also seems like a strong ED contender, which is fine if she really wants to ED, but I am always very, very reluctant to suggest a binding application to a school you have not visited if it can be avoided.
Of course Amherst is good too, but I think of Middlebury as one of the strongest possible small-college choices for Environmental Studies (and obviously a great college in general for those who like the setting and vibe). So I would personally think it makes sense to give Middlebury a chance to beat out Amherst for that slot.
By the way, Bates too in my mind, meaning Middlebury, Colby, and Bates are the three Northeast LACs I would first think of when it comes to ES, and then I would also toss in Macalester and Oberlin outside the Northeast. But apparently she likes Colby and Macalester better than Bates, which is fine.
Oberlin, though, might be another to consider for a visit. Even if it isn’t an ED school, it might be worth keeping as a possible RD school, and it would be a potential (I’d guess likely) merit school as well.
Of course many of the other colleges on your list, including Amherst, are going to be good too, because they are good at everything they offer. But for an ED school? I would think normally it would be one of the top few in your area of interest, although if it remained Amherst that is fine too.
Not sure how Oberlin gets on the list, given the reddish state politics in Ohio.