Chance + match rising senior in midwest for MIT, Princeton, Stanford, Berkeley, Brown for app. math and physics [4.0 UW, 1560]

Chance Me / Match Me
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Appreciate all feedback!

Demographics

  • Female, US citizen, OH, upper middle class, no hook other than woman in stem
  • Public school, ~470 people, pretty academically strong and moderately competitive (as in the range between really competitive and really not is big) Sent 6 co’25 to ivies, 1 to stanford, maybe about 15-17 top 20’s but no mit or princeton in a long time. a majority of majors of the ivy/top 10 acceptances are non-stem.

Cost Constraints / Budget

  • Really not much, will definitely take on some debt if I go to a school such as berkeley, definitely applying for merit-based scholarships

Intended Major(s)

  • Double major in Math & Physics everywhere (Applied Math if possible)

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • UW 4.00/ W 4.64, both out of 4.00
  • Class Rank: School does not report but based on students that have checked with their counselors at least top 5
  • 1560 SAT, 760 RW 800 M (2nd time, 1st was 1520 before hs)

HS coursework (this includes senior year, i will italicize senior year classes)
All classes are accelerated (in my school accel > honors) if not AP
Bolded courses are dual enrollment at my local university (dean’s list btw)

  • English: AP {Lang, Lit}
  • Math: AP BC, Multivar, Linear alg, ODE, Dynamical systems
  • Science: All accel if not AP; AP {Bio, Chem, Physics 1, Physics C M & EM}
  • History and social studies: US history, US gov
  • Language other than English: Spanish I-V, AP Spanish Language & Culture
  • Visual or performing arts: Highest orchestra (out of 3 first three years, out of 4 senior year) all four years, first violin since sophmore
  • Other academic courses: AP {CSP, CSA, Music Theory}, Statistics I & II, Personal finance*
  • 12 AP Classes/15 Tests (Chinese, Stats, Art History) after senior year

Awards

  • 3x AIME, 3x Jane Street/MAA Awards, AMC 10/12 Distinction, MP4G 2024&2025
  • 10th place state math champion (13th a year before)
  • Scioly state medal, regional {1x gold, 5x silver, 2x bronze}, 4th place state invite
  • SMT DHR, INTEGIRLS 1st, ARML 2nd team
  • 3x School math medallion (one person every grade every year)
  • At least PVSA Bronze (once they open it again)
  • Some book award + scholarship I don’t remember
  • And then the generic NMS (1480/1520), AP scholar w/ distinction, NHS, SNHS

Extracurriculars

  • 1x {SUMaC, ROSS, PROMYS, MATHCAMP, HCSSiM} 2024, accepted into another the same year obv didn’t go
  • G2 (Girls Together) olympiad training camp 2025 at MIT
  • Captain of school’s two Science Olympiad teams (all of hs), led team to state for 1st time in 10+ years soph year, place in every regional event
  • Taking advanced combo (non comp math related) class at math circle, writing expository paper at end of course
  • soon-to-be VP of math circle, nonprofit deadicated to bridging gender gap in math, reached 500+ people in 8+ states/countries, instructor of Advanced/intermediate comp math classes, as well as Alg II, almost 1 year
  • SAT Bootcamp tutor, about to tutor second session in math and RW for August SAT
  • Program Assistant at national down syndrome achievement center, monthly plus additional helping, 2+ years
  • Community volunteer weeklky at local farmers’ market, 2+ years
  • Teaching Assitant at my school: Junior year, I TA’s Chinese III for my free bell, senior year I plan to TA AP Chinese and Physics C M & EM. These take up one class each on my schedule, and I help the teachers teach content, grade hw, and make material
  • Extras: Play violin since 5th grade, varsity swim all four years, Chinese Club leadership

this is irrelevant but i used to play piano and quit right before hs, won some international/national awards, but prob won’t put on app

Essays/LORs/Other

  • Essays: working on them, have (too) many personal and specific ideas
  • Am VERY into Kpop, which will fs be the hyperfixated subject of any “pleasure/interest” essay lol)
  • Getting one LOR from my physics teacher (he’s amazing and I’ve talked to him a lot, esp because I was one of the very few juniors taking his M&EM classes, I know he will be 10/10) and one from ap lang teacher (we have things in common and I think she likes me), am thinking about a supplemental one from camp counselor or scioly coach. Counselor LOR will be pretty good, I’ve met with her a lot and share my opportunities and experiences with her consistently

Schools 10 total LOL (i dont want to crash and burn)

  • MIT (EA), Princeton, Stanford, Brown, Caltech, Vanderbilt
  • CMU, UC Berkeley, Georgia Tech (EA)
  • OSU (EA)

The reason I really only have one safety is because I know I will not be going to any other (UT, Purdue, UIUC, etc.) if I get rejected from all the others.

what do you guys think?

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This may sound harsh but I think one safety school and 9 reach schools which all appear to be unaffordable sounds like a bad idea.

You have an excellent profile, and can get in anywhere. But you could also get rejected by all nine reaches. So that puts you at Ohio State.

I think you need to rethink your strategy. Find a few schools that offer merit to high stats kids like yourself. I’m sure many will chime in with some good suggestions.

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That’s a big chunk of kids to top 20 schools!!!

You don’t need to have debt. You do need a budget. A school doesn’t ensure a salary or even a job - there are plenty of top school kids now who can’t find jobs and plenty of non top school kids who have.

So ask your parents what they can afford - and stick to your budget.

What do you want to do with your degree?

OSU is FANTASTIC.

Your schools are $90K + so can your parents afford $400K by the time you are done? They should fill out a net price calculator to see. Berkeley will be a bit less - let’s say $340K.

MIT, Princeton, Stanford, Brown, Cal Tech, and CMU have no merit aid. UCB and Ga Tech could - but it’d be very rare - as would Vandy.

Honestly, when I saw math and physics, the first school I thought of was Purdue. Secondarily, was U of Arizona and U of Maryland. Another mini-MIT would be RPI - great merit for you and fantastic career outcomes. It’d be a safety.

If you’re ok with only tOSU, your list is fine. You can certainly get into all but it’s hard to chance someone to all hard gets. I think Ga Tech happens - but I could be wrong.

But your list is not fine if you can’t afford your high reaches that have no aid - and btw - you can only borrow $27K over four years. Your parents could more but you can’t - and hopefully they wouldn’t. Someone has to pay back those loans - and Jane Street (I noticed your ECs) will allow anyone from any school, not just feeders to take a new hire assessment test.

Schools like Rice, Emory, SMU, Miami, Wash U are “subs” for the no merit schools if you find them out of budget. These schools have the possibility of merit - some (like SMU) more frequently than others but Vandy, WashU, etc. offer full rides.

Best of luck.

Have your folks see what this calculates and whether or not its affordable.

Welcome | Net Price Calculator

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How much can you and your parents afford without debt?

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From our experience, and from what I have read here on CC, the best financial aid / scholarships come from the schools themselves. However…

MIT, Princeton, Stanford, and Brown have no merit scholarships at all. They have very good need based financial aid if you qualify for it. This leads to the obvious question:
Have you or your parents run the Net Price Calculators (NPCs) for these schools?

I am not as familiar with Caltech or Vanderbilt but would not be surprised if they were the same in this regard.

I am guessing that the same is true for CMU.

UC Berkeley has vanishing close to no financial aid at all for out of state students. I would be very surprised if it were to be even remotely close to affordable. I do not know as much about GT’s aid for out of state students, but would be surprised if there is much.

You need to figure out what the budget is, and see whether any of these schools would meet it. Multiple of them do have good need based aid so it is possible that they might be affordable (if you get in).

You are a very strong applicant to these schools. They are all reaches (except for the Ohio State University, which I have not gotten to yet). I doubt that there is much better than a 50/50 chance that you will get into any of your reaches, but I also think that it is worth an application to whichever of them look likely to be affordable.

This was the path that I was on until I got to quantum physics, which convinced me that applied math was the better way to go. Probability and Statistics and some algorithms courses confirmed that math was the better way to go for me personally. You will have plenty of time once you get to university to decide which path you want to take. Some CS classes would fit well with either math or physics as a major (something along the lines of algorithms and/or data structures might be worth taking).

There are also lots and lots of possible career paths that you can take as a math major. There are a lot of things in this world that only work because someone did the math.

There are not a lot of mathematical secrets that highly ranked schools are going to teach an undergraduate student that you could not also learn at The Ohio State University. I am guessing that you are likely to be in-state in Ohio. If I am guessing correctly, then it is a very good choice.

We have seen a few posts here on CC from students who had something like UT Austin as a safety (in-state). I personally had McGill as a safety (in-province). If a student has a solid safety that is tOSU in-state (or UT Austin or McGill) then to me it is perfectly reasonable for the rest of your applications to be to reach schools. In fact, that is exactly what I did years ago and it worked out well. Perhaps job #1 is to make sure that The Ohio State University really is a safety for you, and will be affordable, and that you are happy with the quality of the math and physics programs there (which as far as I know are very good).

Assuming that this is true (and that you are in-state in Ohio) then perhaps job #2 is to run the NPCs on your reach schools and make sure that they will be affordable. If it were me I would probably drop UC Berkeley from the list. It is a great school, but is very expensive for an out of state student.

Next issue: Some of these schools (MIT and Caltech particularly stand out) are a LOT of work. It is quite normal for a student to be #1 in their high school and then show up at MIT or Caltech and discover that they have suddenly become average. Classes are tough. There is a lot of homework. It was quite normal when I was at Stanford (master’s program) for me to spend 6 or 8 hours on a Saturday doing homework, and I really should have done the same thing as an undergraduate student at MIT. If you are going to apply to these schools, then first ask yourself one question: Do you want to be doing homework on a Saturday (and every other day also)? Do you really want to work that hard? Let’s suppose that you spend 6 hours on a Saturday doing a really, really tough homework assignment, and you succeed, and you write up the result and go to dinner with a friend. Are you excited that you just solved a really tough problem, or do you think that you just wasted a Saturday? If you would be excited that you were able to solve the tough problem, then MIT or Caltech or Stanford might be a good fit for you.

Personally as an undergraduate sometimes I loved it and sometimes I hated it. By the time that I was a graduate student I wanted to do it, and I loved it. But you need to decide for yourself how you would feel about it. The desire to do this should come from inside yourself.

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Congratulations on all your accomplishments! You are a very impressive candidate. Just be aware that many of the applicants to the reach schools will also have similar accomplishments. You may have a somewhat slight advantage of being female in STEM.
You need to add more safeties. It seems your parents will not fund any oos publics as safeties. I do not believe there is anything in Ohio of a similar caliber to Ohio State. You can add Miami university -Ohio. But Purdue or Indiana or UMN etc.should be on your list, just in case OSU falls through. Not likely but college admissions seem to get crazier each cycle.

In a sea of applicants with AIME , AMC etc , you may want to work with a private college counselor who has a good track record. They can help you craft your application and essays so that you dont look like just another high accomplishment candidate for a STEM degree. Remember, these universities take a very small number of students and they get more than their fair share of candidates like you, all wanting a STEM major.

Something else to keep in mind is that you may know of students accepted to the reach schools who check all the boxes that you have. However, there are plenty of others with similar credentials who were shut out completely.

Best of luck to you!

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Paging @hebegebe for insights for this strong math student

For OP, you have to get a handle on your budget because that will determine your final college list. Generally, I don’t encourage students to apply to a school they know will be unaffordable…there is no magical source of money, especially when we are talking $90K+/year.

You, the student, can take out $27K in total undergrad loans ($5.5K the first year, then a bit more for the following years.) Anything above that will be on your parents either directly or as a co-signer. There are loan companies that will loan to college students with no co-signer but their loan interest rates are in the mid-teens…so don’t do that.

Whether or not to take on debt is a personal decision for each family, but it’s critical that you take responsibility for understanding how debt can impact your post-grad life…cash flow, credit rating, where you live, ability to take a lower paying job, etc.

Here is the current student and parent loan information. Note the parent plus loan offering may change pending current legistation. Here is a loan calculator you and your parents can use: Student Loan Repayment Calculator - Mapping Your Future

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Not that I would suggest it, but so that you have accurate info, you can borrow above the $27k cap in the federal program. There are private lenders that will allow you to borrow with no co signer and or release the co signer.

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Again I am not recommending this approach but you shouldn’t be influenced by erroneous limitations.

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For public universities, I agree that tOSU is the top in Ohio. But it’s not the only one. University of Cincinnati is great too.

I’m surprised CWRU isn’t on this list.

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Univ. Of Cincinnati is also a good safety. I forgot about that. I do think the math department at OSU is more well known(I am a math professor.) But, yeah , OP should apply to UofC as well.

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UC Berkeley is test blind for admissions and scholarship consideration. Berkeley offers good need-based financial aid for California residents, offers little merit aid overall and costs are around $80K/year. You are an exceptional applicant but if Berkeley is unaffordable what is the point of applying?

As noted by several posters, run the Net Price calculators on each school of interest to determine your cost estimates.

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Completely agree with this post and your (OP’s) strategy. If your “safety” is highly regarded in your major and is affordable, no point in applying to other safeties or schools that are lower on your list.

Definitely run the NPC’s for your reaches. MIT, Princeton and Stanford have great need based FA. For those schools, if your family income is between $150 to $200k (with normal assets), it is likely that those schools are cheaper than your state school. Since I am most familiar with Yale, at 150-$200k household income, the median net cost (tuition, room, board, fees) is only $27k. The highest reaches are sometimes the most affordable.

Another point that @DadTwoGirls made is about understanding the overall college experience. If math and physics are predominant passions, then some schools may be great. If you want to explore other areas and students with more diverse talents and interests, other schools may be better. FWIW, my S spent some time at Caltech and MIT as a potential athletic recruit. He walked away knowing he did not have that singular passion for STEM. He had a good friend from HS who was the Physics god, and my S saw him pull 2 all-nighters when he stayed with him at MIT. IMO, if you want a broader experience, Princeton and Stanford will have all you want as a STEM undergrad with access to more diverse students, talents, and courses.

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Like others, I completely understand why having Ohio State as an option would limit how many other colleges you would be considering. That part makes sense to me.

Also like others, I am a bit confused about the other colleges you are considering in light of your statement about wanting to get merit.

Like kids in my circles chasing merit with a Math/Physics interest would be looking at universities like Rochester. Rochester has a very strong tradition in those areas, it has a general curriculum structure that is very attractive to some, and it has a relatively robust merit program.

But to return to the first point, I could also see a person deciding, eh, I’d rather just go to Ohio State. Or Rochester, but it is a personal thing.

In which case–if you would prefer Ohio State over places with merit like Rochester, maybe just go to Ohio State? Apparently the actual most common number of applications is one. And this is part of why. Sometimes for a combination practical, academic, and personal reasons, there is one clear college choice, and that one is very likely to admit you. So you apply and go there, and that’s fine.

Of course if those other colleges you listed would actually be comfortably affordable for you, that’s also fine. But if not–well, a lot of people in such circumstances would go to their version of Ohio State, and if it went well, then on to a grad program at such institutions, when it would actually most matter, and in fact they might get funding. And that is a fine path, assuming of course it remained what you wanted.

As a final thought, depending on your peer groups, this can sometimes be hard for some peers to understand. Doesn’t everyone good at Math want to go to MIT for college? Doesn’t that mean you should apply to MIT?

But if MIT wouldn’t be comfortably affordable for college, then no, it isn’t a good college choice for you. And while a lot of kids have trouble internalizing the actual practical consequences of things like excessive student loan debt, if you seek out communities where you are looking at young people on the other end of that process struggling with such debt–it is very eye-opening. You really do not want to be one of those people, and you don’t have to be.

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It also has an entirely separate application with four additional personal essays you will need to write (PIQs). If I were you, I would drop UC Berkeley, and add in a few more Common App universities - much better return on your investment of time and energy, since you wisely note:

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