Chance/Match Worried but Hopeful Sophomore and Suggest ECs [3.9/4.4 GPA, Bio or CS Major, NJ]

Chance Me / Match Me
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US Citizen
NJ
Competitive Public
Legacy at Harvard + Cornell

Current Sophomore!!!

Cost Constraints / Budget
household income is <100k

Bio or CS (Premed or Tech?)

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

3.9
4.4, projected to end my jr year with >4.5
(at least) top 5% of class of 500
1370 PSAT first try in October of the start of my sophomore year, going to SAT classes so this will likely improve dramatically (>1500)

List your HS coursework
basically max rigor for my coursework
All honors as a freshman (geometry, bio, world history, english, spanish 2 + electives)
5 honors + 3 APS as sophomore (AP Bio, AP CSA, APUSH, english, chemistry, spanish 3, algebra 2)
will be taking 5 or 6 APS next year as a jr and the rest honors
same for senior year

Awards:
USACO Gold, PVSA Gold, projected USABO seminfinalist???

ECs:

  • Varsity + Club Fencing: Placed 17th in HS State Individual Tournament; Starter in Foil Fencing, likely to be captain next year. Junior Olympic Qualifier for Cadets
  • Played freshman soccer last year. Tried out and made varsity this year, decided not to play though. Might play senior year and could possibly be an EC on my app.
  • Vision Center Internship - Do pre-testing on patients with machines, enter their information into the system, and schedule appointments.
  • Mission trips - Went to Red Lake, MN (twice) and Guatemala (once) with my church.
  • Alliance of Youth Leaders of US - Regular member/volunteer, weekly volunteering
  • Volunteer at Church’s VBS / Summer Camp
  • Bio club, coding club (hard to get positions here since to get a position it is just nepotism)
  • Did a couple online coding courses, mostly irrelevant
  • Does studying for USACO count as an EC?
  • Will be creating Data Science Club next year with a friend. Hopefully I can create some impact here?
  • May be getting a Data Science internship at a friend of a friends company as a DevOps role, likely but not sure.
  • next year will be applying to summer programs, didn’t apply to any this year

Essays/LORS
N/A, lowk my life mad boring so idek what im gonna write in my essays

Schools:
Thinking about an ED to Cornell as I have a parent legacy there. If not, maybe Vanderbilt
Other schools, many are reaches so please tell me how my application can improve for these:
Emory, WashU, Vanderbilt, NYU, Rutgers, UNC Chapel Hill, Georgetown, UIUC CS, University of Michigan, UT Austin,

If my list is out of my league, please tell me so and match me with better schools. These are my goals, so I am trying to improve so possibly go to one of them one day

Also, I’m somewhat low income so schools with good financial aid would be helpful as well

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A few things:

I would use the net price calculator for the schools you are interested in and show the number to your parents.

Your list is reach heavy and costly. Is Rutgers affordable? Once you have a firm budget you will need to find affordable safety and target schools. It’s ok to apply to reach schools that seem affordable based on the NPCs, but you also need others.

Congrats on your achievements. You don’t need to have an exciting life to write a great essay!

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My parents know that the colleges on this list are costly, but totally willing to invest in me.

Rutgers is definitely affordable for me as I am in state

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If Rutgers is affordable then do some research on the SUNY schools. Some participate in the tuition match, others may give you merit.

I would not have your parents take out huge loans or use retirement funds for college…if that is the plan. Ask your parents to run the NPCs.

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If this is the case, you should remove UNC, UIUC, Michigan and Texas from your list. You won’t be receiving any financial aid from those schools.

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UNC meets full financial need for OOS students…IIRC!

@twogirls am I correct?

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The net price calculators are currently set for students starting fall 2025. That is NOT you! And yes, financial aid policies and formulas do change. You can use the NPCs for a very rough estimate now, but that’s it. You don’t even have the tax year information you would need to complete the NPCs for when YOU will be starting now.

The number that matters most is what your parents can and will pay. I agree…parent loans should be avoided. You mention premed…costs for medical school will well exceed $100,000 a year by the time you get there…if you do. And medical school is funded by the bank of mom and dad, and loans loans and more loans.

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Yes, UNC meets full need for OOS students.

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So I will gently agree you need to have a really specific discussion about costs with your parents. Every year we see kids who work hard to apply and get admitted to colleges they want to attend, and then their parents say they are unable or unwilling to pay what they will cost, or in fact the kid decides it is too much to ask. So this needs to be nailed down with buy-in from all sides before applying anywhere.

I also think you are on track to be pretty competitive for admissions, but something like merit may depend on exactly how you do on your tests (no pressure, right?). That’s OK, it just means we are too early to really have that conversation, but you have plenty of time.

As a final thought, I agree you will likely be strongly considering Rutgers and some SUNYs for a combination of affordability and high quality. But I do wonder given the rest of your list whether you might want to look at some Likely and Target privates that might be affordable with some combination of need and merit aid. Just a thought to keep in mind, but lots of people hear “safety” and think that has to be a big public. But there are all sorts of interesting colleges that might love to have you as a student.

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Figure out the finances, NJ is a big donut hole state due to high COL, Rutgers is not generous with merit, gives very little to in state students, it will cost over $130,000 for 4 years. I assume 3.9 is unweighted?

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These are very different majors (although strictly speaking someone has to write the software for MRI and CAT scans and for robot-assisted surgery systems and for other medical devices). As a sophomore in high school you have plenty of time to figure out which path you want to take. Eventually you will need to figure this out, although this could even happen after you get to university. For example I attended a university that does not even let you pick a major until the end of your freshman year, and this is not all that unusual.

One issue with CS is that it is common at least as of the recent past to get a good job with a bachelor’s degree. This reduces the “time to employment” compared to some other potential majors. This can to some extent limit the financial stress of education (and Rutgers is very good in this area).

Some people are currently wondering to what extent AI will impact software engineering jobs in the future. Some humans will still be needed, for example to tell AI what the software is supposed to do and to make sure that whatever comes out the other end works. My personal prediction (which agrees with a machine learning expert who I was chatting with recently) is that the strongest students/engineers/mathematicians will still have very good jobs, but will need to understand something about how the AI/ML works. Weaker software engineers might be replaced by machines. One possible issue here is that this need for greater specialization might introduce the possibility of wanting a master’s degree at some point, which increases the education cost. This is however very highly speculative, since we do not know how this will all work out and in general in the past many predicted technical breakthroughs have just not happened.

Medical school is expensive, and is a very long path. This is something that you need to be strongly drawn to, and also something for which you need to pay attention to costs in order to try to minimize the debt as much as possible if you do take this path.

I think that affordability should be very high on your list of priorities regardless of whether you end up on a premed path or on a CS path. If it is reasonably possible, then you would be best off to avoid debt for your bachelor’s degree. If this is not possible, then at least try to keep the debt down to the federal government subsidized limits (which I think is just $5,500 for freshman year of university).

Taking on debt for your bachelor’s degree can in many cases limit what options you have after graduating university. If you can get your bachelor’s degree from a good university with no debt, then you will be thankful for this about 6 or 7 years from now.

To me this makes some of the out of state public universities on your list unlikely to come in as affordable. I would for example be surprised if UIUC or U.Michigan or UT Austin are affordable. While all of these are very good universities, I do not see the advantage relative to Rutgers, which is also very good. I happen to know or have known quite a few Rutgers graduates, and they have all made the school look good.

And you should definitely have your parents run the Net Price Calculator before applying anywhere ED, including Cornell. While Cornell has good need based financial aid, the way that schools calculate need does not always correspond to each family’s financial reality.

And I also think that you are doing very well at this point.

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When I saw your thread title, I was hesitant as to whether I should post as you’re quite early as a sophomore and I strongly suspected that your list would essentially be composed of schools that are reaches for nearly everyone. Apart from Rutgers, I wasn’t wrong.

That said, however, most users advise students to start looking for schools that are likely or extremely likely to admit them that would be affordable for their families and that they would be happy to attend for four years. For some students, they can have a harder time identifying those schools. You have the luxury of time to figure out what’s important to you in a college and to identify schools that meet those criteria and are highly likely to admit you.

Looking at your list, it appears as though you have a preference for mid-sized to larger schools, either in a college town or a more urban location in the eastern half of the U.S. Is that correct? Just off that information, below are some schools that you might want to investigate would be likely or extremely likely to admit you.

  • U. at Buffalo (NY): About 20k undergrads

  • Marquette (WI): About 7700 undergrads

  • Saint Louis (MO): About 11k undergrads

  • Loyola Chicago (IL): About 12k undergrads

  • DePaul (IL): About 14k undergrads

  • U. of Cincinnati (OH): About 31k undergrads

  • St. Joseph’s (PA ): About 4800 undergrads

  • U. of Louisville (KY): About 16k undergrads

  • West Virginia U: 19k undergrads

  • Christopher Newport (VA): About 4400 undergrads

  • George Mason (VA): About 28k undergrads

  • U. of North Carolina - Charlotte: About 24k undergrads

These are all schools where I suspect you could receive merit aid, and quite possibly very significant amounts of merit aid.

But there’s still more about colleges that can influence your preferences. Things like:

  • Significant enthusiasm for intercollegiate athletics
  • Importance of Greek life (fraternities & sororities)
  • Class size
  • Religious or political factors (whether of the student body/campus or the surrounding area/state)
  • Particular interests you want to pursue while in college
  • Flexibility to change majors, including to popular ones like CS, business, or engineering
  • Inclusion in special cohorts (like honors programs or a Living Learning Community (LLC), or a specific research cohort, etc)

If you get a budget from your family and can tell us more about what kind of college experience you’re hoping for, others would be happy to provide more targeted suggestions for you to consider.

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would like to go to highest ranking university possible, as my family’s finances allow.

i asked my parents what their budget would be and they said for now to perform as well as possible and that they will support me wherever I want to go. My parents have always wanted me to go to as best a college as possible

personally the way i look at it im basically guaranteed to get into rutgers, im just worried if ill get into any T20s, which both my parents and i believe will help me succeed for the rest of my life. In terms of CS, I believe the right college will help me secure the internships i need to progress my career. For medicine, doing well at a prestigious college will help me get into a good med school

also looking at Vanderbilt’s free tuition promise

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We don’t know what your parents can afford- that is your family’s business. I would not jeopardize my retirement or take big loans that might be hard to pay back. Also- there is a good chance that loans will be capped for both undergrad and medical/grad school. It would be terrible if you could not finish your degree. That’s all I have to say as it is your family’s decision. If they can afford these schools, that’s great!

Your success as a premed will depend on you, not your school. If you do not want to go to Rutgers I would search for other safety and target schools where you might get merit.

Many of the schools you listed have very low acceptance rates- chancing you is not possible. Try your best, get excellent letters of recommendation, and pay attention to the essays.

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Just planting a thought.

The US News rankings are not based on placement success, in general or in any given area. Let alone controlled for the factors individuals bring to the placement process.

And actual placement studies often find quite different things from the US News rankings.

Of course if you and your parents want to stick with those rankings anyway, that is ultimate your choice. But with the time you have available, you might consider looking into some of these issues with a more critical eye. You might be surprised at what you find.

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@WayOutWestMom can elaborate and correct me if I’m wrong, but the name on your undergrad diploma is not a high metric in terms of medical school admissions. Your GPA, sGPA, MCAT score, volunteering with underprivileged folks, patient facing work or volunteer experience, LOR, and IF you are invited for an interview…your interview skills are more important.

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A survey of medical school admission deans has “selectivity of undergraduate institutions” as one of the least important academic metrics that med school adcomms consider when decisions about who to interview and admit to med school.

See p. 15
Using MCAT® Data in 2024 Medical Student Selection

Successful med school applicants come from a very range of undergraduate institutions–from Ivy League colleges all the way down to directional state universities and tiny religious colleges. Med school admission is about merit, not pedigree.

There are two other things I think you need to think about:

  1. med school costs about $100,000/year. Pre-med students are strongly advised to keep any borrowing for undergrad to a minimum since they will be taking our massive loans to pay for med school.

  2. only about 18% of those who start off as pre meds freshman year actually persist in finishing all the required pre-reqs. Only half of those who finish the pre-reqs have a GPA high enough to be serious contenders for med school. Of those who actually apply to med school, only 40% get any acceptances–and most of those get only 1.

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Do you have any interest in fencing in college? As a rising junior, you are just in the right time frame to start the recruiting process.

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I would have a conversation with your family to see if they want you to go to the “best” college (interpreted as the highest USNWR ranking, as far as I can tell from your posts) or whether they want you to go to the best college FOR YOU. It brings to mind a student who is attending a college that regularly rejects highly-qualified students (like top of their class, 1550+/34-35+ test scores, with significant ECS and leadership). The student is absolutely miserable there. And every year there are students who are attending the highest-ranked USNWR schools who transfer out…as high school seniors they’re so excited to attend a high-ranking school and then when they get there they realize that it’s not a good fit for them. I don’t want that to be you.

Additionally, every year there are a number of students who get accepted to the highest-ranking USNWR schools and end up going to schools with significantly higher admit rates. Why? Sometimes it’s the money. Other times (and often it’s AND), it’s about special opportunities that they’ll have at that college. For instance, getting the choice of which lab you want to do research with from the beginning of your college career rather than having to compete with lots of other students for a spot in any lab. Or having standing invitations to meet with famous/important guests that come to the university, or getting special funding to support study abroad or independent research or to support an unpaid internship, etc.

The schools with the lowest admit rates commonly have competitive clubs (i.e. you have to compete to get a spot in a club, especially related to CS and finance, but also numerous other areas). For classes where tests are often graded on a curve (like many pre-med science classes), that is the group of students against whom you will be competing for the top grades. There’s nothing wrong with that for people who thrive in that environment, but that’s not the kind of environment that’s right for everyone.

So I would recommend thinking about what kind of environment would make you happiest and where you are most likely to thrive, and then look for those schools, making sure that you have at least one (and preferably more than one) school where you would be happy that is extremely likely to accept you and be affordable.

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I note I think sometimes kids and parents see this as a trade off–like they can choose a college where they are most likely to thrive, or a college which will do the most to help them with future placement, but not both. And they think the best decision is to go with better placement.

But this is a false dilemma, because we know that as an almost universal rule, when it comes to competitive next step positions, how you actually do in college is very important. What exactly that means varies with the next step, but basically all next step gatekeepers are looking for applicants who thrived in college in the ways that matter to them.

So you should never choose a college which is not a top choice for you to thrive because of placement reasons, as that is a self-defeating strategy.

Now of course once you have identified the colleges where you are very confident you can thrive, if you want to then also look at relevant placement studies, OK. That shouldn’t be your first question, and generally such studies lack proper controls. But colleges that do relatively well in a relevant placement study are at least among the colleges which are capable of supporting students with such ambitions.

But again, almost universally that only works for the students who actually thrive there. So such studies are at most a secondary consideration, even if placement is something you view as a primary issue.

Because to do your best in terms of placement, first you have to thrive.

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