That’s a great point. If you are looking at a ranking and it is just all “the usual suspects,” that isn’t very informative. However, if it also includes some “surprise” schools, including possibly some you know very little about, now it might have some value to you.
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If posters look at many of the recent “help me decide which college to attend” threads, they should notice how many acceptances came with merit aid/tuition discounting. Per the NACUBO (National association of College and University Business officers) studies, on average, freshmen at private colleges get about a 56% tuition discount, and almost 90% get some combination of institutional grant aid (need and merit). The tuition discounting will be very limited at the highly rejective schools, but it is helpful to remember, as students select schools to consider, that if they are a strong applicant, they may see a merit aid in their FA package. Maybe not a lot, maybe a nice amount. But it is not uncommon, and worth remembering.
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Depends on how transparent the college is with respect to how competitive different majors are. For colleges like SJSU and CPP, you can see how different majors compared in admission selectivity in the most recent completed admission cycle. But many other colleges are less transparent.
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Total number of applications is less important than having an assured (for both admission and affordability) safety. Any other college on the application list needs to have a realistic possibility of admission and affordability, and should be one that may be preferred over the safety.
As far as reach, match, likely, safety goes, if a merit scholarship is needed for affordability, then the estimation must be based on the chance of getting the scholarship, not admission.
Of course, any early admission that is affordable changes that college into a safety, which can allow dropping some other applications (or all if binding ED).
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Imagine if there was transparency at the top 10 UG business colleges including ED, EA, and RD? My guess is nobody would be applying for business and RD. The odds must be less than 3%.
Freshman admission by discipline | University of California shows UCB business frosh admit rate of 5% with a middle 50% recalculated weighted capped GPA of 4.20-4.30. (Note: no ED or EA, although the regular deadline is 11/30.)
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Yes, graduates from many majors work in general business.
Perhaps at “highly ranked” business majors, that major may be more of a signaling thing indicating that the student has passed a higher admission gate than the general student population at the college, so it may attract employers who want some level of “eliteness”. There was an old thread in the UCB section where someone familiar with IB recruiting basically said that economics majors were seen as business major rejects (both at the time were secondary admission, but business was much more competitive).
I have heard this thinking but also know that at U-M, for example, the banks save on-campus spots for the econ-types.
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I also want to mention that an undergrad business program is a specific sort of experience, with a specific sort of fellow students. And so there is nothing wrong with wanting that experience, those peers, and so on.
But . . . also nothing wrong with thinking maybe that is not so much what you want for an undergrad experience. That doesn’t mean you won’t like actual business, which is not the same thing as business school.
And finally, it is fine to not be sure but to be open to giving it a shot.
In terms of what is best for placement, talking to people who do business hiring over the years, they are really all over the map on this. Some seem to think of it positively, some actually negatively, some don’t care, some make it contingent on where you are talking about, and so on.
Given that, I think . . . do what you actually want to do is the best advice. Doing something you don’t want to do is not only a waste of what can be some very fun years, but it is also risky, since people not happy with their academic program often do worse. And conversely if you do what you like, and end up doing it really well, plenty of people in business will like that, and you only need one.
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You know, if you truly want to be an Econ major but go to an IU or UM or Richmond or wherever - somewhere with a prominent b school - there could always be that doubt.
But in reality, a higher gpa doesn’t make one a better employee.
But I wonder if some of these kids have this on their mind.
2/3 of these aspirations don’t require a specific major, and I would argue students are often stronger candidates if they are in an adjacent major vs finance or journalism.
My daughter went to the University of Michigan, was not a business major/in Ross, but had plenty of MBB and other consulting opportunities. Maybe that was despite her major, but she has plenty of friends in consulting, IB, real estate and other traditional business fields — without business degrees — that it seems like it could have been because of it. A business degree can be practical, but there are so many more interesting things to major in yet still work in a business field!
Similarly, Michigan has no journalism school or degree, yet the field of journalism includes MANY Michigan alum.
As other posters have mentioned, there are a small number of career choices like nursing where a specific undergrad major is required, but most colleges have majors that get students wherever they want to be. Not considering an Ivy because the school doesn’t have a business major seems shortsighted.
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I’m talking about what they want to study, not what they can do.
I’m simply saying if there’s something you want to study specifically and it’s not offered at that place, why would you apply there?
I’m not talking about the career. I’m not talking about clubs and activities you can do.
I’m simply talking about - what you definitely want to study….if you have that assured subject in your heart before stepping foot on campus. I’m not talking about how great it is to be open minded or explore. I’m talking about if you know you want to study entomology (bugs) or a specific bug, you should likely attend a school that has focus on that. Only a person who 100% is zeroed in before they apply.
I’m not talking about anything else.
I think we were just pointing out the ambiguity in phrases like, “I want finance.”
One kid saying that could mean they definitely want the option to do an undergrad Finance major.
Another kid could mean just that they are interested in a possible career in finance.
Obviously the thing to do, then, is ask individual kids what they are really thinking. And then take it from there.
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Realized from someone’s PM, I left off UT Austin (McCombs). That would have replaced Richmond.
Also a great result (including Forty Acres Finalist)!
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No one could predict finalist here and UNC but if @heavyweightcollege knew up front and was aware of the dates…
But can’t imagine anyone can dig that deeply.
I will end (and close this post) with my learnings through the process. Of course, I/you will never know whether what happened with my son will hold true for others, or whether my learnings are even correct for that matter.
- I have always believed A-s/90s/1500s (with a challenging schedule) are acceptable to make the cut on the top end. While I agree the higher the stats, the better, my son’s process should give those 3.85/low 1500 types realistic hope. I would argue being “almost” top allows you to breath so you can pursue other interests beyond studying more math and prepping for tests.
- I underestimated the difficulty of the regular decision bucket with the top 25 schools, as some people warn on CC. Although RD did produce an ivy, it was sprinkled with a few more waitlists/rejections than I anticipated.
- Have always advised people that if they want to play a sport, it is best to apply accordingly. MIT does not allow for that. While their process is 100% fair, applicants are probably giving up commitments to other schools, with a less than 50% likelihood of getting admitted to MIT. No regrets on our end but students should proceed with caution.
- While my son got into some great UG business schools like McCombs, Kenan-Flagler and others, the top 3 eluded him. Maybe that is because of regular decision. Maybe it was yield management on their end. Maybe he needed another 20 points on the SAT, or they did not like an essay. But, I am 100% certain these are extremely hard to win. Some people on CC believe that Wharton takes kids who spend their summers as camp counselors (I was a camp counselor for 5 years in the late 80s/early 90’s, so no disrespect), but I think that, and similar edge cases will pose challenges for applicants. I am not doubting admittance for them is “possible,” but that is not the profile I would want to feature in the top end of an UG business process. They have ivy admit rates and extremely focussed applicants from where I sit.
- I think the correct # of colleges to apply to is somewhere between the old-school 8 and the commonapp 20. 12 feels like a challenging number of applications where a student can still bring their A game.
- Some people chase merit, but merit can also come to you. Pleasant surprises, invitations to competitive processes… that feel like the college process on steroids. Apply to honors colleges when you can and compete for merit if invited. We never really thought my son would win one of these, and I would have never anticipated that to have been his ultimate choice.
- Visiting schools helps, and also might be another unfair wealth advantage in the admissions process. My son visited many colleges, but did not visit and was not admitted to two schools that care greatly about demonstrated interest. When you apply to 23 schools nobody can visit them all (so apply to 12 like I said). I believe that may have hurt him at those 2. Would it have changed the results, who knows? It also made me question the advice we give students on CC - “go visit to decide on which school you like best.” Although that is sometimes the right advice, like ED is sometimes the right advice, can low/middle income families make that happen?
If these prove to be interesting and prompt further discussion, I will put up my final three learnings over the weekend.
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D26’s school results.
Kids accepted to: Princeton, Yale x 2, Brown (D26 - ED), Stanford, Columbia, Dartmouth, Cornell x 2, UPenn.
D26’s BFF is the Salutatorian with a 1590 SAT, varsity sports captain, leadership awards. Rejected from all her top choices. 8 Kids with lower GPAs/SAT scores were accepted and she was rejected by all the Ivies.
It seems that at the top schools, once you meet their accepted academic threshold, your GPA, class rank, SAT scores dont really matter that much.
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What is x2? Twins or two students ?
Impressive.
2 kids were accepted at those schools.