Chance me: DD26 Tufts ED + match me suggestions for psychology

Chance Me / Match Me
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Hello,

DD26 asking for feedback - has strong interest in applying ED to Tufts. Also looking for suggestions for LAC’s (mid-sized or smaller) for psychology, but with options to change major later. Any location okay but prefer 9,000 undergrad size or smaller. Urban or rural okay.

US domestic
Pacific Northwest
Large public high school - sends a handful to T20’s including Ivy spots annually
Full pay
Psychology major, also interest in biology, Spanish, math - loves many subjects

Unweighted HS GPA: 4.0
High school does not rank
SAT Scores: 1530 - RW 770, Math 760 (first sitting - will take again once more)

10 AP’s through calc BC, Physics-C, AP Spanish Lang, AP Lang & Lit, etc

Will be National Merit commended scholar, right on the line for potential semifinalist
No other awards other than probable AP something

EC’s:
Editor-in-Chief of school newspaper
National team level ultimate frisbee player, varsity captain, etc. (wants to play in college)
Varsity soccer captain, elite club team (but not interested in college soccer)
Lots of volunteering and internship work across areas of interest (psychology, biology, etc.) but nothing super impressive or competitive.
Lots of civic engagement and volunteering, but no exceptional leadership or programs started, etc.

Essays/LORs/Other
These should all be well above average, but probably not “off the charts/once in a decade student” level

TIA!

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Based on the breadth of your daughter’s interests, she might benefit from looking into LACs with notably flexible curricula, such as Smith, Amherst, Hamilton and Grinnell. Other potential fits could include Vassar, Wesleyan, or Pitzer.

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Tufts is strongly possible ED. I hypothesize It’s how they keep the % of people expecting need down. ED is often full pay. And her test is good. The school is almost half TO.

They don’t show ED #s but I’m sure it’s high. I’d lean toward yes.

Tufts is not really an LAC per se. I’d say Rochester, Case as target….maybe Emory too with W&M, Oxford @ Emory an option high target/low reach, Vandy, Rice, WUSTL as reaches and schools like Occidental, Brandeis and Richmond as a safety / likely with Elon and U Denver safe.

I skewed from LACs in that Tufts is larger.

Good luck.

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If you are planning to tour Tufts, I’d add in looking at Brandies as a safety.

If visiting Grinnell, I’d add in Charlton and St. Olaf.

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Thank you - we’ve yet to visit smaller LAC’s but she is interested to get a feel for them!

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Thank you! I’ll pass these along. She is interested in WUSTL already and liked Occidental when we passed through the campus recently.

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Congratulations to your D on building a strong profile while in college! I know that she’s playing at a national level in ultimate frisbee and wants to play in college. Do you think her skills would make her eligible for any college’s team (like those ranked in the top 5), or would a less competitive ultimate team be necessary?

In coming up with suggestions, I’m relying heavily on these two sources (schools need to be on both):

  1. The undergraduate institution of people who have gone on for a doctorate. I narrowed the range from 2010-2023 and looked at psychology. This is not to say that your D plans to go this route, but if graduates of these institutions were able to earn a doctorate in the field, I am taking that to mean that these are strong departments. https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/jonboeckenstedt/viz/DoctoralRecipients1958-2023/AllData. As an arbitrary cutoff, I looked at schools that produced at least 49 alums who earned a doctorate in psychology between 2010-2023.

  2. This ranked list of women’s ultimate frisbee teams in college: Team Rankings | Play USA Ultimate

  3. College Navigator (the feds’ website) for assurance that they offer degrees in Spanish, bio, and psych and for looking at admissions rates, percentage of students who submitted tests, etc.

The schools below are all classified as Baccalaureate or Master’s institutions, meaning that their their highest degrees given are generally a Bachelor’s or a Master’s, and that there’s a higher focus on undergrads. They’re also all classified as residential colleges (I excluded some Cal States and CUNYs that are not residential.) I may come back with a list of schools that are classified as doctoral institutions.

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • Butler (IN): About 4500 undergrads; #195 for Ultimate

  • College of Charleston (SC): About 11k undergrads, #116 for Ultimate

  • Ithaca (NY): About 4400 undergrads; #126 for Ultimate; can cross-register for classes at Cornell

  • SUNY Geneseo (NY): About 3900 undergrads, #169 for Ultimate.

  • Truman State (MO): About 3300 undergrads; #129 for Ultimate

  • U. of Mary Washington (VA): About 3600 undergrads; #162 for Ultimate

  • U. of Wisconsin - Eau Claire: About 9300 undergrads; #123 for Ultimate

Likely (60-79%)

  • St. Olaf (MN): About 3100 undergrads; #32 for Ultimate; in the same town as Carleton and students can cross-register

Toss-Up (40-59%)

  • Kenyon (OH): About 2200 undergrads; #150 for Ultimate

  • Mount Holyoke (MA): About 2200 undergrads; #85 for Ultimate; in the 5 College Consortium with Amherst, Smith, U. Mass, and Hampshire.

  • Oberlin (OH): About 3k undergrads; #179 for Ultimate

  • Skidmore (NY): About 2800 undergrads; #138 for Ultimate

  • Trinity U. (TX): About 2500 undergrads; #71 for Ultimate

Lower Probability (20-39%)

  • Carleton (MN): About 2100 undergrads; #4 for Ultimate; in the same town as St. Olaf and can cross-register there

  • Smith (MA): About 2500 undergrads at this women’s college that is part of the 5-colleges consortium with Amherst, Mount Holyoke, U. of Massachusetts, and Hampshire. #147 for Ultimate.

  • Wesleyan (CT): About 3100 undergrads, #70 for Ultimate

Low Probability (less than 20%)

  • Amherst (MA): About 1900 undergrads and part of the 5-college consortium with Smith, Mt. Holyoke, U. Mass, and Hampshire

  • Barnard (NY): About 3400 undergrads at this women’s college that is tied to Columbia. No Ultimate team, but Columbia has one that is #64.

  • Bates (ME): About 1800 undergrads; #78 for Ultimate

  • Davidson (NC): About 1900 undergrads; #87 for Ultimate

  • Grinnell (IA): About 1800 undergrads; #117 in Ultimate

  • Middlebury (VT): About 2800 undergrads; #61 for Ultimate

  • Pomona (CA): About 1700 undergrads, but part of the Claremont consortium which is over 5k undergrads. Claremont’s Ultimate team is #136.

  • Wellesley (MA): About 2400 undergrads at this women’s college; #69 for Ultimate

  • Williams (MA): About 2100 undergrads; #74 for Ultimate

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@AustenNut This is beyond what we expected! Thank you for compiling this list. We have a lot to explore here. To answer your question, she would be very strong on any college’s team, including top 5. That said, she is trying to think about academic and social fit first and foremost.

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These institutions are classified as doctoral institutions, meaning that the highest degree they offer is a doctorate. These schools tend to have a larger population of grad students. They offer the three majors of interest, have an Ultimate Frisbee team (per the link in my previous post), are residential campuses. Low probability schools need to have at least 100 alums who went on for doctorates in psychology. Schools in other categories have at least 49 individuals who went on to earn doctorates in psychology between 2010-2023 (though note that Brandeis, GW, and Rochester all met that threshold as did BC, Tulane, Wake, and W&M).

I gave myself a little more leniency on size for schools in the likelier categories (here and in the previous post), but otherwise tried to keep to the stated preferences.

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • Loyola Chicago (IL): About 12k undergrads; #143 for Ultimate

  • Saint Louis (MO): About 10k undergrads; #111 for Ultimate

  • U. of Alabama - Birmingham: About 12k undergrads; #203 for Ultimate

  • U. of Vermont: About 12k undergrads; #1, 63, and 161 for Ultimate.

Likely (60-79%)

  • American (D.C.): About 7800 undergrads; #39 & 204 for Ultimate; only a likely if she shows significant demonstrated interest

  • Santa Clara (CA): About 6200 undergrads; #79 for Ultimate

Toss-Up (40-59%)

  • Brandeis (MA): About 3700 undergrads; #95 for Ultimate

  • George Washington (D.C.): About 11k undergrads; #149 for Ultimate

  • U. of Rochester (NY): About 6800 undergrads; #77 for Ultimate

Lower Probability (20-39%)

  • Boston College (MA): About 10k undergrads; #113 for Ultimate

  • Case Western (OH): About 6200 undergrads; #148 for Ultimate

  • Tulane (LA): About 8100 undergrads; #146 for Ultimate

  • Wake Forest (NC): About 5500 undergrads; #173 for Ultimate

  • William & Mary (VA): About 7k undergrads; #37 & #192 for Ultimate

Low Probability (less than 20%)

  • Brown (RI): About 7700 undergrads; #29 and #186 for Ultimate

  • Duke (NC): About 6500 undergrads; #59 in Ultimate

  • Emory (GA): About 7400 undergrads; #155 for Ultimate

  • Georgetown (D.C.): About 8k undergrads; #48 & 188 for Ultimate

  • Harvard (MA): About 9100 undergrads; #75 for Ultimate

  • Johns Hopkins (MD): About 6100 undergrads; #121 for Ultimate

  • Northwestern (IL): About 9200 undergrads; #200 for Ultimate

  • Stanford (CA): About 8100 undergrads; #5 for Ultimate

  • U. of Chicago (IL): About 7600 undergrads; #96 for Ultimate

  • U. of Notre Dame (IN): About 9k undergrads; #22 & #185 for Ultimate

  • Washington U. (MO: About 8300 undergrads; #175 for Ultimate

  • Yale (CT): About 6800 undergrads; #43 for Ultimate

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This is a great way to be thinking about things. Fit is extremely important, and there are schools that I’ve listed above that have very different vibes from one another. Has she visited Tufts yet? What is it that she likes about the school? That can help posters narrow in on schools that would be better or worse fits for her.

Your D will be a strong candidate for colleges, but that does not negate the need to have at least one (and preferably at least two) schools on her list that are extremely likely to admit her, be affordable (which doesn’t sound like an issue for your family), and that she would be happy to attend for four years. Every year there are super strong students who come here in the spring with stories of how they were rejected/waitlisted from their preferred low(er) probability schools and now they “have” to go to their safety which they only put on their because they needed to have one, and they’re very unhappy that it’s the school they’re going to end up at.

For many strong students, it’s easy to find low and lower probability schools that they’d be happy to attend, but some of them have a harder time finding the sure things for admission that they’d be happy with. That’s why many on the forum recommend that students start looking for those schools first, building their lists for the most likely schools first and then moving on to those that are less likely to offer an admission.

Students will absorb what their families value. Families that spend very little time researching, talking, or visiting schools that are likely admits usually end up sending a message to their kids (whether intended or not) that the family places less value on likely schools. If a student ends up going to a likely admit school (by choice or by necessity), they can sometimes feel that they’ve disappointed their family or that they’re not good enough or some type of negative emotion related to the college they attend. Not to say that this is the case in your family, but I think it’s important to be on families’ radar.

Some schools with high admit rates are high because a lot of students self-select for them. Other times a school has a higher admit rate because of its location…schools in the midwest would likely have much lower admit rates if they were located on one of the coasts. It’s not that they are any less great as schools, they’re just in a less desirable location so they end up accepting more of the strong students who apply there in order to fill a class of the appropriate size. Additionally, there are schools with higher admit rates that have honors colleges and other programs that provide a very strong academic cohort for the students who participate.

All of this to say, I’m looking forward to following along on your D’s journey to college and look forward to any feedback that can let us hone in options that might be most palatable to your D!

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Check out Clark University in Worcester MA. It has a great reputation for psychology (Freud visited there and there is a statue of him in the middle of campus). It is one of the Colleges that Change Lives (check that website).

Lesley University in Cambridge has holistic psychology, counseling and expressive arts but admission rate is high.

“Little Ivies” have mostly been mentioned (you can google all of them) and are good options. Tufts is one.

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This is very helpful to hear at a time when DD is just starting the college search. We were thinking of focusing tours on lower probability schools in order to assess ED priorities and waiting to visit others until after admittance, but this point really hits home. We need to show equal excitement about a range of options, and I think our socially versatile DD could find a great fit at many of the higher probability spots too.

To answer your question about Tufts - she will visit this spring, along with whatever other schools we decide to fit in over spring break. So, she may change her mind on interest there. So far the things that have caught her eye about Tufts include the size (she prefers medium to small), the location (many of her frisbee friends play on New England area college teams and are having a blast), and the fact that several kids she considers to be kindred spirits have gone to Tufts within the past few years and loved it.

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@compmom Thank you! We’ll check out Clark and Lesley!

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Note that Tufts wants to see a very solid background in foreign language regardless of major and has a high foreign language requirement.

Other than that, based on what you said, Tufts ED sounds reasonable.

Wondering if @juillet is still around?

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Two of the best small liberal arts colleges for Psychology are in Upstate New York. Union College (44% acceptance rate) opened its Center for Neuroscience about a dozen years ago. It contains state of the art labs and research facilities. Union is an excellent liberal arts college (2100 enrollment) with a beautiful campus, located in Schenectady, NY, a city that has undergone a renaissance in recent years with a vibrant entertainment district downtown. It is in NY’s capital district. Your daughter will likely get a scholarship here.

Colgate University (14% acceptance rate) is a reach school located about an hour outside Syracuse in the rolling hills northwest of the Catskill Mountains. It was one of the first colleges to start a program exclusively focused on Neuroscienceu about 50 years ago. Last year Colgate opened a new Mind, Brain, and Behavior Center, fostering an interdisciplinary approach to the study and research into cognitive science. Colgate (3100 enrollment) is a little bigger than Union and is located in a small college town in a region with other small colleges nearby such as Hamilton and Utica.

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@MYOS1634 Good to know. It turns out DD’s second love is Spanish - she’s in AP Spanish Lang now as a junior and I could see her minoring in it. So schools with strong language programs will likely be attractive. She wants to check out Middlebury for that reason too but I hadn’t been tracking on it for Tufts!

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@Bill_Marsh Thanks! I think Colgate may be on her radar but Union sounds very interesting!

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St. Olaf’s admit rate is 48%. While cross registration with Carleton is an option, students can only take classes not offered at their school. Also it’s logistically challenging since Carleton is on the trimester system and St. Olaf is on a 4-1-4.

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@laughlines (Love your user name)
I think for psychology it is wise to look into the details of curriculum. I have actually been looking for myself! Some psychology majors are heavily “science” with an emphasis on research and some are more “liberal arts” with an emphasis on internships, for instance. Presence of grad students has pros and cons: schools with grad programs may offer research opportunities for undergrads working with grads. Examples (which you have no doubt seen):

Undergraduate Programs | Department of Psychology | Clark University
Major in Psychology | Bachelor of Arts Degree | Clark University

Psychology majors participate in a rigorous program and become familiar with experimental, statistical, and qualitative methods. You’ll collaborate with professors and doctoral students on research projects that may be presented at prestigious scientific conferences.
and
Psychology is a research-intensive field; given Clark’s commitment to action-based learning, you’ll be required to take at least one lab or research course, where you’ll be able to integrate the perspectives of diverse cultures into your work. So whether you’re interested in the psychology of genocide, child development, abnormal psych, or other areas within this rich course of study, you’ll have the chance to advance knowledge and make a difference.

Psychology Bachelor’s Degree | Lesley University
Five possible majors within psychology: General Psychology, Expressive Arts Therapy, Counseling, Art Therapy, or Holistic Psychology. includes cross-cultural and holistic psychology along with the usual general, abnormal, organizational, life span development etc.

Tufts Undergraduate Programs | Department of Psychology
Psychology, Biopsychology, Clinical Psychology, Cognitive and Brain Science, and Engineering Psychology

Psychology Department | Psychology | Union College
About | Psychology | Union College
Students often combine psychology with other majors or minors such as biology, economics, mathematics, sociology, or political science. As a result, our majors go into a wide variety of fields. Many, either immediately after graduation or within a few years, enter some type of graduate program. Some of these students enroll in professional schools for medicine, dentistry, law, education, or nursing; other students enroll in business-related graduate programs for master´s degrees in business or health care administration. Many of our majors seek advanced degrees in clinical or counseling psychology or related fields such as social work and speech pathology. Several majors each year enter graduate programs leading to the doctorate in various areas of academic psychology

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Thanks for adding additional color to the pragmatics of cross-registration between the two schools.

To clarify, my categorizations above were based on my guesses as to OP’s chances for admission, not just based on the straight admit rate. In looking at the D’s academic background (including test scores), admission info for St. Olaf (including the percentage of students who submitted a test), and the geographic diversity of the Pacific Northwest, I thought the OP’s chances for admission were greater than St. Olaf’s overall admission rate.

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